Different wordlviews, metaphysics and ethics

[Heidi]

This is something I wanted to address for a long time. It has been the single most off-putting thing that led me to refuse joining any specific group or religion I've come across. Before anyone gets offended, this post is not targeted to any one person here and it's something that I see in every path or attempt to reconstruct a dead tradition or religion in the west. It's not demon-specific and it's not forum-specific either.

Not every culture, tradition and religion on earth shares the same worldview, metaphysics and ethics that are prevalent in the western world. I know this is a very difficult concept to grasp if you've grown up in the western world because we've all been steeped in the same monotheistic paradigm for thousands of years so we don't really have a chance to consider that a different worldview could be possible, but there's also a huge part of the planet where people have a very different view of the world compared to the western paradigm.

Now why this is important to understand? It is important because I see people going through all this trouble to leave one of the dominant monotheistic religions (usually some form of Christianity) behind, only to transfer the worldview, metaphysics and ethics of their old religion into the new one. This is extremely common in modern paganism (to a devastating point) but I also see it among demonolators too.

Allow me to provide some examples so that you can understand what I mean:

People who believe that they will be thrown out of Hell for making a mistake or offending one of the Dark Lords.

People who believe that they are to leave every choice and decision in the hands of their deity/DL of choice and trust them to lead them where they are meant to go, instead of making their own choices and decisions in their lives and learning from them.

People who say they are witches/sorcerers etc but will not cast any magic that may violate free will in any way. This is so prevalent a mindset in certain pagan cycles nowadays that I come across people claiming there can be such a thing as a magical tradition without any magic or ritual in it at all (save for devotional rites to their main deity).

People who are themselves witches/magicians/sorcerers/whatever in one of the western systems of magic who view other living traditions that stem from different parts of the world (Vodou and Santeria for example) as dark, because these traditions or religions incorporate things or worldviews than in the mind of someone who thinks the western paradigm with its worldview and ethics is the only one, therefore everything that is considered wrong in it is dark and evil. So if something would be considered wrong or a sin in a christian-based tradition for example is labelled as wrong and the path to destruction, and the tradition it comes from suddenly gets painted as a dark and dangerous path.

Now this is not so much a problem when someone joins a living tradition properly, because they will have someone teach them and help them understand the worldview, ethics and metaphysics of their new religion. It is a colossal problem though in religions that are attempting to reconstruct dead religions (the worship of the Olympian or Roman gods for example) or newer religions and traditions.

What basically happens with many people is that they will leave their old religion (again, mostly some form of Christianity), they will keep talking about how free and empowered they now feel, they will go through all the trouble of de-programming themselves from one or two main points of their old religion (eg. demons are evil and want your soul). And then they'll go and transfer the worldview and ethics of their old religion into the new one, so they'll basically keep most of their old beliefs and just change the entities and gods associated with them. "If I'm not good and don't do what I am told I'll be thrown out of Heaven" becomes "If I am not good and don't do what I am told I will be thrown out of Hell". "I will place my trust in Jesus because he leads me and he knows better than I do what is good or bad for me therefore I will always do what he tells me to do" becomes "I will place my trust in Satan because he leads me and he knows better than I do what is good or bad for me therefore I will always do what he tells me to do".

This happens automatically, because as I said above, the western world has been dominated by religions based on pretty much the same beings and the same concept of Soteriology. The basic premise is: you are like a baby, ignorant and unable to decide what is good or bad for you. You aren't trying to reach spiritual adulthood though because someone else will come and save you, as long as you follow this specific set of commandments.

Now if this is the worldview you choose for yourself then there's nothing wrong with that and you'd do well in one of the religions that have this worldview. But not every religion is a religion of salvation. Ancient greek religion for example wasn't a soteriological religion. It had its own set of ethics and things the gods expected from humans, but it was based mostly on cause and effect. Don't jump off a building because you'll either die or end up crippled and live a very unhappy life because of that. But there's no judgement from the gods if you do. It's your call. Don't cheat on your husband because if he finds out, what'll happen won't be pretty. But it's your call. Unless you lived an exceedingly good and noble life (hero) or an exceedingly filthy and evil life (tyrant who killed millions, desecrated holy places and cooked and ate his own kids for example), you knew you'd end up in the same part of the Underworld as everyone else you knew.

And this is just one example of a religion with a different worldview compared to what is now prominent in the West. The Celts had a different worldview and ethics. The Saxons had a different worldview and ethics. Buddhists have a different worldview. So do the Aboriginals. So do different african tribes.

And no matter which one of those religions or traditions you choose for yourself, you're doing it and yourself a great disservice by taking the worldview and ethics of your old religion with you and plugging it all into the new one. Demonolatry and Demonosophy suddenly become Christianity, just with different beings on top and more sex and nudity.

And this is not what it is. Every religion's worldview and ethics are shaped to a great degree by the gods and beings around which it revolves. I've spent the last couple of years working heavily with angels, and I can see why some things are the way they are in the religions that have those same angels in them (some of those things; a lot of the crazy ass shit is all human). You can't expect the ancient greek religion to have the same worldview and ethics, considering it revolves around different beings. You can't expect any religion that revolves around demons to have the same worldview and ethics that a religion that is greatly influenced by angels has.

Taking the ethics and worldview of one religion (especially when it was one that you didn't fit and and felt oppressed in) and just plugging it into the new one is like carrying the chains you were bound with with you as you break out of prison and just finding a new prison and a new guard.

[Marosey]

This is something I wanted to address for a long time. It has been the single most off-putting thing that led me to refuse joining any specific group or religion I've come across. Before anyone gets offended, this post is not targeted to any one person here and it's something that I see in every path or attempt to reconstruct a dead tradition or religion in the west. It's not demon-specific and it's not forum-specific either.

Not every culture, tradition and religion on earth shares the same worldview, metaphysics and ethics that are prevalent in the western world. I know this is a very difficult concept to grasp if you've grown up in the western world because we've all been steeped in the same monotheistic paradigm for thousands of years so we don't really have a chance to consider that a different worldview could be possible, but there's also a huge part of the planet where people have a very different view of the world compared to the western paradigm.

Now why this is important to understand? It is important because I see people going through all this trouble to leave one of the dominant monotheistic religions (usually some form of Christianity) behind, only to transfer the worldview, metaphysics and ethics of their old religion into the new one. This is extremely common in modern paganism (to a devastating point) but I also see it among demonolators too.

Allow me to provide some examples so that you can understand what I mean:

People who believe that they will be thrown out of Hell for making a mistake or offending one of the Dark Lords.

People who believe that they are to leave every choice and decision in the hands of their deity/DL of choice and trust them to lead them where they are meant to go, instead of making their own choices and decisions in their lives and learning from them.

People who say they are witches/sorcerers etc but will not cast any magic that may violate free will in any way. This is so prevalent a mindset in certain pagan cycles nowadays that I come across people claiming there can be such a thing as a magical tradition without any magic or ritual in it at all (save for devotional rites to their main deity).

People who are themselves witches/magicians/sorcerers/whatever in one of the western systems of magic who view other living traditions that stem from different parts of the world (Vodou and Santeria for example) as dark, because these traditions or religions incorporate things or worldviews than in the mind of someone who thinks the western paradigm with its worldview and ethics is the only one, therefore everything that is considered wrong in it is dark and evil. So if something would be considered wrong or a sin in a christian-based tradition for example is labelled as wrong and the path to destruction, and the tradition it comes from suddenly gets painted as a dark and dangerous path.

Now this is not so much a problem when someone joins a living tradition properly, because they will have someone teach them and help them understand the worldview, ethics and metaphysics of their new religion. It is a colossal problem though in religions that are attempting to reconstruct dead religions (the worship of the Olympian or Roman gods for example) or newer religions and traditions.

What basically happens with many people is that they will leave their old religion (again, mostly some form of Christianity), they will keep talking about how free and empowered they now feel, they will go through all the trouble of de-programming themselves from one or two main points of their old religion (eg. demons are evil and want your soul). And then they'll go and transfer the worldview and ethics of their old religion into the new one, so they'll basically keep most of their old beliefs and just change the entities and gods associated with them. "If I'm not good and don't do what I am told I'll be thrown out of Heaven" becomes "If I am not good and don't do what I am told I will be thrown out of Hell". "I will place my trust in Jesus because he leads me and he knows better than I do what is good or bad for me therefore I will always do what he tells me to do" becomes "I will place my trust in Satan because he leads me and he knows better than I do what is good or bad for me therefore I will always do what he tells me to do".

This happens automatically, because as I said above, the western world has been dominated by religions based on pretty much the same beings and the same concept of Soteriology. The basic premise is: you are like a baby, ignorant and unable to decide what is good or bad for you. You aren't trying to reach spiritual adulthood though because someone else will come and save you, as long as you follow this specific set of commandments.

Now if this is the worldview you choose for yourself then there's nothing wrong with that and you'd do well in one of the religions that have this worldview. But not every religion is a religion of salvation. Ancient greek religion for example wasn't a soteriological religion. It had its own set of ethics and things the gods expected from humans, but it was based mostly on cause and effect. Don't jump off a building because you'll either die or end up crippled and live a very unhappy life because of that. But there's no judgement from the gods if you do. It's your call. Don't cheat on your husband because if he finds out, what'll happen won't be pretty. But it's your call. Unless you lived an exceedingly good and noble life (hero) or an exceedingly filthy and evil life (tyrant who killed millions, desecrated holy places and cooked and ate his own kids for example), you knew you'd end up in the same part of the Underworld as everyone else you knew.

And this is just one example of a religion with a different worldview compared to what is now prominent in the West. The Celts had a different worldview and ethics. The Saxons had a different worldview and ethics. Buddhists have a different worldview. So do the Aboriginals. So do different african tribes.

And no matter which one of those religions or traditions you choose for yourself, you're doing it and yourself a great disservice by taking the worldview and ethics of your old religion with you and plugging it all into the new one. Demonolatry and Demonosophy suddenly become Christianity, just with different beings on top and more sex and nudity.

And this is not what it is. Every religion's worldview and ethics are shaped to a great degree by the gods and beings around which it revolves. I've spent the last couple of years working heavily with angels, and I can see why some things are the way they are in the religions that have those same angels in them (some of those things; a lot of the crazy ass shit is all human). You can't expect the ancient greek religion to have the same worldview and ethics, considering it revolves around different beings. You can't expect any religion that revolves around demons to have the same worldview and ethics that a religion that is greatly influenced by angels has.

Taking the ethics and worldview of one religion (especially when it was one that you didn't fit and and felt oppressed in) and just plugging it into the new one is like carrying the chains you were bound with with you as you break out of prison and just finding a new prison and a new guard.

How is it possible to work with Yaweh's Angel or any, that is not part of the left hand path seeing you
Work with them?

If we were left alone as kids to figure out what our paths were and not taught to think and worship what our parents worship. I believe people can have less stress in choosing their path.

[Heidi]

Every person's path is different. Some people have a very strong calling to one path or religion and work only with the beings within that path or religion. I personally don't feel the need to follow just one specific path or religion, and many different kinds of beings have a place in my practice, including angels.

You are right in that if we were left to choose our own paths instead of having one enforced upon us during childhood we'd feel more free to choose something that suits us. But one benefit of having had a specific worldview that doesn't mesh with you enforced upon you since childhood is that you have a very clear idea of where your problem lies. Of what you need to de-condition yourself from. When you have grown up in a family that isn't particularly religious and allows you to experiment with different paths, you often don't realize how many subconscious beliefs you have that have been enforced upon you by society itself. The worldview I mentioned above isn't the result of growing up in a religious family. It's the result of growing up anywhere in the western world. Many of those beliefs would be that basis of a person's thinking even if they had grown up with atheists as their parents, because their whole culture is holding those beliefs and everyone growing in that culture would learn to think in a certain way regardless.

Ultimately though, we become adults and it is our responsibility to examine our belief system and see if it serves us in our lives or if we need to update some of those beliefs and automatic assumptions we have been carrying.

[Darth Moronius]

Great post with many things to ponder about, Heidi

It made me think, what if I was born and raised in US, in France, in Israel, in Zimbabwe, and so on and so on. Will that person still be the same, just replacing some names and languages? Or will he/she be a totally different person, more aligned to the natives?

[Eilana]

First of all, Heidi I think you hit the nail right on the head. This is an amazing and insightful post. I actually really can appreciate this and it resonated strongly with me.

I came from a Catholic background and I did end up feeling I had to 'de-program' myself and I actually ended up working with an angel to do this. (Post coming shortly lol).

Also this:

I've spent the last couple of years working heavily with angels, and I can see why some things are the way they are in the religions that have those same angels in them (some of those things; a lot of the crazy ass shit is all human).

Yes!! One of the things the Angel I worked with told me was that what I had been taught in my religion here, was a form of 'corrupted' Angelic beliefs. It wasn't what Angels believed exactly though it was somewhat related, humans had sort of changed it... (unless I am totally misunderstanding what you said here lol and going off topic ... also this is my own interpretation of what he said, I saw you said crazy ass human shit and was like LOL! yes! I know what you mean!)

When changing religions or belief systems it is very easy to fall prey to this. Speaking from my own personal experience, it is quite a shift, there are a lot of things to confront and change and it really isn't all that easy. Ok well it wasn't easy for me. I did have my own issues and struggles doing this. I do think a lot of people who transition from a more Christian background to the LHP end up falling into this and ultimately do not walk the LHP in a balanced manner because of it. I was on many sites before I found S&S and felt that people had just switched out 'God' for 'Satan' and I was very uncomfortable with it.

Really brilliant post Heidi, thank you for this.

[Akelta]

I love this post and discussion. Also, I just wanna clear the record.. No one gets kicked out of hell for offending the Dark Lords, that isn't what Hell is, lol. Satan has been called the Lord of the rejects, the misfits, and the forgotten, those who don't fit in and you don't have to fit in with a Satanic Clique to follow him. There are many different ways to follow him too, just like there are many sects of Christianity. It comes down to basic respect and dialogue, why do you practise this way? how do these methods empower you? We can really learn a lot by engaging in dialogue and discussion. Even in our own society ethics and views change overtime, talk to a human who lived 200 years in the past, the views and beliefs would be so different.

This is one of the things that drew me to Anthropology, the different world views and beliefs of different cultures. It is so fascinating to learn about their beliefs and also to embrace and understand their mindset. Why they view the world in the way that they do and how they interact with the energies around them. It is fascinating to see and just how those vibrations shape their world and understanding.

It is interesting for me. I did come from no background, my mom was 100% committed to letting me find my own path and she supported me, even when I declared that day I was going to walk with Satan she and my step father both supported me. My step father was actually very happy for me. So I actually have a hard time really grasping the hatred that each side has for each other. I believe that all paths have merit and that all paths, and perceptions so long as they are empowering the individual will benefit them.

Perceptions. Tiger always talks to me about my perception and he will flat out tell me when my perception on a situation is limiting me and he always challenging me to shift it and see things from the other side, or free my mind from a thought that is limiting me. This is not to discredit what I know, but to point out that I am limiting myself, and that my views are stagnating me. Opening up to the view of another and hearing them doesn’t mean that you have ot change your path, and it certainly doesn’t mean that you have to go soft on your path. It just means that you are listening and hearing the views of another, even if you disagree, but by listening, you might just learn something new. Debate is powerful and passionate and you know the opposing views of the world they add to the diversity and the expansion of knowledge. It is through discussion and exploring our different ideas and beliefs that new thoughts and theories rise. I really do love diversity, even when I don’t agree with it.

I never also followed a particular path, I carved my own, this doesn't mean that I am undisciplined, on the contrary I am a firm believer in training yourself and committing yourself to the path you want to walk. I was committed to the Demons and I was committed to myself, my own spiritual development and mastering my essence and honouring the path that called to me. But that path was one of my own and once I had my own spiritual foundation and discipline I had the tools to carve that path. The path itself was one that called to my heart.

Religion, spirituality, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Paganism, Satanism, they are all different paths and I think that if people do have a calling to a religion they should follow it with all their heart, so long as it is the path for them. When you find passion pursue it with with all your heart. Not everyone is going to agree, what is a beautiful prayer for some might insight horror for others, but in the end we can have a basic respect for each other and listening and understanding where the other person is coming from. Respect first starts with the self, you have to be able to respect yourself to be able to respect others. Self Respect, Self Love, once you can give these things to yourself you can give them to others.

Now this is not so much a problem when someone joins a living tradition properly, because they will have someone teach them and help them understand the worldview, ethics and metaphysics of their new religion. It is a colossal problem though in religions that are attempting to reconstruct dead religions (the worship of the Olympian or Roman gods for example) or newer religions and traditions.

THIS, omg I would love to have a deep discussion about this. Yes, cultures, mindsets, and perspectives change over time, the mindset is subjective, right and wrong are subjective and how do you revive and old religion and integrate it with new perspectives and values. How does it integrate, I don't think it would be at all like the old religion because of how this world has changed over time. It would be those gods, but aligned with todays thoughts, how can you create and understand the mindsets of the past. It is such a rich and fascinating topic. These two things, the old and the new wold meet and they would change, they would change and shift each other, which I think is part of the progression of this journey.

Now if this is the worldview you choose for yourself then there's nothing wrong with that and you'd do well in one of the religions that have this worldview. But not every religion is a religion of salvation. Ancient greek religion for example wasn't a soteriological religion. It had its own set of ethics and things the gods expected from humans, but it was based mostly on cause and effect. Don't jump off a building because you'll either die or end up crippled and live a very unhappy life because of that. But there's no judgement from the gods if you do. It's your call. Don't cheat on your husband because if he finds out, what'll happen won't be pretty. But it's your call. Unless you lived an exceedingly good and noble life (hero) or an exceedingly filthy and evil life (tyrant who killed millions, desecrated holy places and cooked and ate his own kids for example), you knew you'd end up in the same part of the Underworld as everyone else you knew.

I find it very interesting how aligned with ancient Greece the things I have uncovered from exploring the outer spiritual world. I find the cause and effect model very simple and also very real and practical.

And no matter which one of those religions or traditions you choose for yourself, you're doing it and yourself a great disservice by taking the worldview and ethics of your old religion with you and plugging it all into the new one. Demonolatry and Demonosophy suddenly become Christianity, just with different beings on top and more sex and nudity.

This I think is actually part of the initial journey of the LHP to find balance and why balance is so important. You have to go through the process of releasing yourself from the mindset and the beliefs that you were inundated with. Shadow work is so aligned with the LHP because it is about that, it is about going into the mind and really looking at why you think the way you do, why you say the things you do and really engaging in an alternate perspective. Sometimes some beliefs serve you, and sometimes they are destroying you from the inside and lowering your vibrations.

There are so many great discussion points in here, Thank you Heidi!