A question about angelbooks (Velca is needed)

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Blu
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I see no other way than to ask Velca here in this post. I cannot send him a private message.
I hope he reads this.
Actually everyone can give me answers who is working with angels.
I`m not really interested in working with angels, but I want to know more about their background.
But the problem is, there are to many books.
Velca, from your experiences, who is the most authentic angelmedium or source when it comes to angels?
Are Doreen Virtue books still the real deal when it comes to angels, even after she turns her back on them?
Or do you think Diana Cooper is more believable?

When you working with demons, are the angels ok with it?
Or the opposite, are your demons ok with it that you working with the angels?
Can you call them together in a ritual?


When it comes to esoterism angels are these feel good for no reason beings.
But I heard they are not these nice guys at all.
I want to know more about angels, but I need a source of information.
I want authentic information.
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Red6joker
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Hmm from what I have found (usually on CH) and from my own experience angels range from healers to warriors usually dealing with some kind of protection.

Most media and especially RHP magicians do indeed portray them as "feel good" but they have emotions like anything else and not every day is a good day.

I have not officially called on both a demon and an angel at the same time for ritual unless it's a fallen angel like Lord Lucifer. My demon/dark art companions do not seem to have a problem being in the same spiritual family also. I usually spend time focusing on one at a time though.

I used to be against them but well things change with time. This is all from my experience though.
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Darth Moronius
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how about enochian methode?
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as darth said if you want the more ceremonialist perspective try enochian workings and John Dee's work. i quite like http://hafapea.com/angelpages/directory.html as having a decent list of angelic beings. I have heard of practitioners who work with both angels and demons, though i don't think they are called in the same ritual together- unless of course you are doing traditional solomonic workings- which i don't agree with but anyway.
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Most western cermonialist magick refers to angels as being associated with yahweh and the christian paradigm, though there is some debate as to whether some of the angels- like archangel Michael were actually gods. There are also different beings in different cultures apart form christainity who would fall under the category of angel like possibly Inari's kitsune, the tengu, tennin, kinnara's, apsara's ( to an extent) and sometimes the Deva's are considered angels by some sects, just to name a few.
user4558013
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Hi!

So, there are layers to my answers which will always be long-winded in my style :lol:

So, I don't really believe in any singular person whose spiritual say has greater value than another's. I say this because if you are sharing your spiritual experiences from an authentic place, a place where you are simply sharing your experiences for those that might be interested...they are their most authentic that they can be. So then, there just becomes the decision of who is going to be viewed as more authentic, or more sayso on matters from a personal choice. Some make the choice because it's the most popular and known choice, some make the choice because people make enough decisions in their life and have to worry about their physical life, there is a sense of relief in letting go and just follow the writings of someone else and make it your own spiritually. Some make the choice because their views resonate with them. It just makes sense.
That's where I am.

So I like people for different things. Doreen, whatever is going on with her path, even though she chose to stray from her old writings, her old writings were written during a time where those experiences, those perspectives were her most authentic self. Unless she said herself that her old writings were not authentic, and made up then I personally believe her work is still very much so relevant even if she has grown from it personally. (I use grow but we quite literally do not know why she chose to stray away, there are so many potential reasons.)

I love her work with the Archangels because I relate heavily to her translation of energies and connection with them.

For actual personal decisions on who to work with and which angels are okay with what...I think this is something to personally explore rather than base it off of someone else's writings on them. I say this because while the main... "archetype" personality can be documented, the details past the archetype where the individualistic nature of the being will vary between people because of each of our own bias and way we translate energies and what we will even entertain to be possible in our realm of thinking and based off each of our own unique psychic tool-kit of working with the metaphysical.

I can very much so respect the skeleton of someone's work and then use my own psychic tool-kit to get the finer details. I don't believe that it's a necessity to agree with all of an individual's work just because there are a lot of things that I do resonate with. I will proudly say that you will never catch me kissing the literal rear-end of a demon and using feces in my work just because that same individual has some spiritual experiences and writings that I do agree with.


But let me more directly answer your questions now LOL.

When you working with demons, are the angels ok with it?
Or the opposite, are your demons ok with it that you working with the angels?

I am going to be very honest here on my views on this. It's absolutely neither the demon's nor the angel's that I work with or really, any otherworldly being's business who I work with. And I mean this in the most respectful way.
I genuinely can not fathom anyone or any being have a say in who I work with or connect to. To me personally, that is a giant red flag.(And by red flag I mean one of a few things, that behavior itself if it is actually happening is a giant red flag to me; and I would firstly look at my own translation of energies and see where I might be projecting. OR I am not truly connecting with who I thought I was and I am being deceived.)
Unless it stems from a place of trying to protect me from something malicious, I never have experienced a being involving themselves in that way. Perhaps this is just because my boundaries have long been in place for this so anyone who chooses to work with me, already come forward having being okay with my practices. But I think it's more likely that most just don't care about who I connect with just as long as it doesn't affect the work I am doing with each individual being

I think it's important to remember that while we find not only the metaphysical fascinating, but the otherworldly beings that are in the metaphysical extremely and endlessly interesting. But that isn't necessarily matched on the same level for these beings.


Can you call them together in a ritual?
When doing a ritual, it's always inspired by my work with a being already. So I never have been one that will call on several deities for a singular ritual for personal reasons and opinions. I have done several rituals that included both a Dark Lord and Archangel. But by that several, the variation in who I am connecting with in those rituals is an extremely small group. (3 demons and 2 Archangels - Not all together for any one ritual.) And this work was all done in a collaborative, voluntary place from all parties. If I have to ask for a specific being to take part in a ritual and have it not be from a planned place or volunteer; I don't personally believe that they are meant to be involved.

When it comes to esoterism angels are these feel good for no reason beings.
But I heard they are not these nice guys at all.
I want to know more about angels, but I need a source of information.
I want authentic information
I know what you mean entirely. But this goes back to what I originally said. I think there is a reason why there is a solid foundation of detail for both the Archangels and Goetia of each of their unique archetypal personalities; but I believe there still is a lot of personal bias being projected into the entire dynamic of not only demons and angels, but the generalizations that come with it. What is perceived as "not nice" needs a lot more detail before that should be associated with a being. What was "not nice" ? Why was there a "not nice" experience? What was the environment like and what was happening before the not nice situation rose. and what were the true intentions? I hope this makes sense.

It sounds like a cop-out but truly, listen to your intuition. It guides us with maneuvering through life and making decisions in the physical; but it also can guide us in where we are meant to be and where we are supposed to be going spiritually as well.


I know you were seeking for a specific person to be referenced to or source; but I always have been more of a fan of learning from other's writings and incorporating it into my own personal work. Spirituality is just far too individualistic as it is, you top the individualistic of spirituality and the experiences that come with the individualism of each divine being. It would be simply ridiculous for any human individual to feel as if they have a full grasp of the full range and spectrum of any deity. It simply isn't logical to acknowledge the greatness of these ancient energies and in the next breath speak as if you have the full understanding of said ancient energies. If you can grasp that, then what an opportunity to be around an ascended master. :devillove:
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Blu
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First of all thank you very much Velca for your answers.
And I thank everyone here for they answers too.

Velca wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:25 am
When it comes to esoterism angels are these feel good for no reason beings.
But I heard they are not these nice guys at all.
I want to know more about angels, but I need a source of information.
I want authentic information
I know what you mean entirely. But this goes back to what I originally said. I think there is a reason why there is a solid foundation of detail for both the Archangels and Goetia of each of their unique archetypal personalities; but I believe there still is a lot of personal bias being projected into the entire dynamic of not only demons and angels, but the generalizations that come with it. What is perceived as "not nice" needs a lot more detail before that should be associated with a being. What was "not nice" ? Why was there a "not nice" experience? What was the environment like and what was happening before the not nice situation rose. and what were the true intentions? I hope this makes sense.
The best example that comes to my mind of "Angels are not so the nice guys" would be Akeltas ritual with Archangel Michael.
In one of her post she describes how Michael assaulted her for no reason, when I am correct.
It seems that he is bias, when it comes to people who are working with demons.
On the other side I heard from one of V.K. Jehannum videos that Archangel Michael is on no one side.
That he don`t give a damn.
You read something similar on Koetting forum.
When you read or hear from people something positiv and from others something negativ, well it`s confusing.
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user4558013
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Whiski wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:38 am
First of all thank you very much Velca for your answers.
And I thank everyone here for they answers too.

Velca wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:25 am
When it comes to esoterism angels are these feel good for no reason beings.
But I heard they are not these nice guys at all.
I want to know more about angels, but I need a source of information.
I want authentic information
I know what you mean entirely. But this goes back to what I originally said. I think there is a reason why there is a solid foundation of detail for both the Archangels and Goetia of each of their unique archetypal personalities; but I believe there still is a lot of personal bias being projected into the entire dynamic of not only demons and angels, but the generalizations that come with it. What is perceived as "not nice" needs a lot more detail before that should be associated with a being. What was "not nice" ? Why was there a "not nice" experience? What was the environment like and what was happening before the not nice situation rose. and what were the true intentions? I hope this makes sense.
The best example that comes to my mind of "Angels are not so the nice guys" would be Akeltas ritual with Archangel Michael.
In one of her post she describes how Michael assaulted her for no reason, when I am correct.
It seems that he is bias, when it comes to people who are working with demons.
On the other side I heard from one of V.K. Jehannum videos that Archangel Michael is on no one side.
That he don`t give a damn.
You read something similar on Koetting forum.
When you read or hear from people something positiv and from others something negativ, well it`s confusing.
Exactly! There are always going to be sources for either side; and neither are wrong at all. Because both Akelta and VKs writings are both authentically their experiences, but which one resonates more? It’s no different than when you hear the teachings of demons from a Christian standpoint and their experiences with “Satan” and then Someone on here speaks of their experience with “Satan” and they’re going to be very different. Both are very real perspectives of what they experienced, but which one makes sense to you? Which one clicks more


We tend to already know who is calling to us and it’s just a matter of convincing ourselves that it’s a calling and letting down the guards to allow the experience to happen

For both Akelta and VK, there is going to be a list of reasons as to why their experiences were that way
and some of those reasons can very well just simply be there not being an energetic match and there’s absolutely nothing either party is doing “wrong”

For both of them, the details of what lead them to their results is what makes it. So that’s why it’s important to take note of others experiences to learn and observe from; but to allow your intuition to be on equal ground as every other persons writings ;d
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You might as well laugh now because you’re going to laugh about it when you're further down the road anyways.
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Just wanted to say Thankyou so much Velca for your insight I really needed to hear this as it’s been coming up lately for me so thankyou so much, it definately clarified things for me! :devilgrin:
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