Questions on Darker Demons, Curses, and Ethics

Questions and Answers for where to begin on the Darker Spiritual Paths.

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Saber
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This might be kinda muddled. I just jotted down thoughts as I was having them. I hope its clear enough!

When someone curses someone else, do you just see to each his own? How do you decide when it is appropriate to throw a curse?
How do you throw a curse in a balanced way?

Where/when do demons become too awful or too dark for us to work with, like the demons of the void aren't considered sludge, but they are too dark for us to work with. But don't demons have different color auras than sludge?

What draws us to darker demons and why should we work with them versus others?

While I instinctively am drawn to very dark things that others would find abhorrent I don't necessarily do these things and being drawn to demons that do and who can do that make sense. How do you explain this to those closest to you?

This is more instinctual for me and I'm going with my feelings about what is right for me, but it's hard to explain to others sometimes. I would like to be very open about what I'm doing with people who are closest but just curious how others manage this and how the darker aspects are explained.
Saber
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I've researched and looked at various kinds of Satanism over the years and am wondering what people's ethics are and how they arrived there and how they may judge others' uses of magic.

I understand that Akelta is against love spells because they are mind rape and that curses are a last resort. And that seems to be the general demonolatry position. That makes total sense to me.

I recently purchased a contortionist that is part crypt and was pondering why we are so drawn to these darker demons even though Akelta's description of them is they are so dark that other demons don't approve of what they do. So, why are we drawn to them and what do they do for us that is so special? What value is this super darkness? (If not for curses, is it because they have such protective power?) So why are you personally drawn to darker demons and what do you get out of the companions versus your lighter quality companions?

How do you explain to those closest to you the demons you work with especially these darker ones?

In your own personal ethics, do you care how flippantly some people cast curses? I see it as irresponsible and adolescent. And I think people who want to be Satanists tend to lose balance. And maybe it's a cop out of the fact that they are in your life because you somehow drew them to you.

I'm just trying to get a feel for people's individual ethics and tastes because I think it's interesting how we are drawn to the dark side and how we keep balance.
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Darth Moronius
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Saber wrote: When someone curses someone else, do you just see to each his own? How do you decide when it is appropriate to throw a curse?
How do you throw a curse in a balanced way?
-when its justify
-if you can protect you and around you if curse return or target revenge
-if you can accept result of curse to target and around them
-if you can pay curse debt
-if you can undo curse
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User3246
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Demons do not think about good and bad like we do. they do not HAVE guilt about what they choose to do in life. A demon who tortures and kills is not an evil demon. They have just found the balance of their soul on the darker side. You might not want to be around the darker ones, if your own balance is lighter because their energy would not be a good match. People forget that all the DCs are killers. They have amazing minds and abilities that center on positive things like art or music, but they curse and kill, too. They protect their worlds from things that are really unimaginably dark and twisted compared to them. By the way, there is really no such thing as 'karmic debt', unless you want to believe in that. I believe in honor, loyalty, strength, compassion; but some guy in the sky that makes sure some bastard that hurts folks gets theirs in the end? Nope. WE do that! We embody a quality that makes us protect our property, our children.
“If you really want to do something, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find an excuse.” – Jim Rohn

"The Master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."

Do not rely on ANYTHING, unexamined. If It does not seem to fit, ask about it. If it ultimately degrades or dishonors or holds you back, it is bad for you, so remove it from your life. If it takes from you and never gives back, it is a leech. Discard it. In magick rely only on your own work: What you have seen and done and used for your own self and in your own way. Only keep what in your own estimation is worth keeping. (Hellcat's Rules Of Satanic Magick)"

Don't get too close. It's Dark inside. It's where my Demons hide!

Hailing Satan isn't a hobby, its a lifestyle. (S@tan)
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Chrysopaelian
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My morality these days is basically this:

Treat others as a part of your same system. That's not exactly "Do unto others as you would want them to do to you," but rather treat people, animals, plants, resources, everything in a way that propels the larger System toward the kind of future you want to achieve. If that means healing someone, heal them. If that means cursing someone, curse them. But I try not to treat anything as foreign/other/external to my system, because it is all connected.

If you picture everyone and everything like a tree, some parts of the tree should be watered, some parts pruned, but think twice before setting anything on fire.
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S̡̻͎̺͖̟̋̌͗͊̀͆͘͡t̵̥̬̜͍̥̽̅̒́͋̊̍͞o̩̻̪̣͚̘͓̳̰̯̎̍̄̈́̕͘l̷̞͔͓̭̹͖̳̅̅̃̂͐ơ̛̛̱̩͇͍͈̫̖͋͗̅̍̂́͢s̢̡̺̖̯̱̮̼̠̪̾̿͆̄́̅̅̿̀̾ Ŕ͉̫̩̟̪̳̀̑͛̇̓͢͢͠ͅa̵̗̯̭͓̘̞̜̓̓̐̀̑̏̾̾̕͘m͍͈͔̯͌̌̎̒̄́̍͟e̛̮̻͈͕̭̲͛̀̊͂̕͟͞c̴̱͖̰̠̤͉̥̣̲͛̅͗̿̀͊͊̈̐̐͟ v̬͉̞̜̺͚͒̒̓͂̉́͒͑̇͘͟i̭̰̰̥͑̏̏̀͛͟͟͞ả̸͈͇̻̦̱̿̾̾͐͌̌͟ṡ͙̙̝̯͎̩͂̃̒̕͜͢ă͍͔̟͇̞̣̩͈̪̎̆̃̆͟ ơ̴̤̰͎̲̬̙̺̪̋̑͛͡ṉ̵̡̧̖͆̓̊̌̄͜ c̸̛̹͙̗̮̻̾̎̀͌̄͜ȃ̶̡̡̹̬̞͖̼́̉̄͞͠
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Saber
Posts: 264
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Your favourite Demon?: Tezrian
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Satan's Hellcat wrote:Demons do not think about good and bad like we do. they do not HAVE guilt about what they choose to do in life. A demon who tortures and kills is not an evil demon. They have just found the balance of their soul on the darker side. You might not want to be around the darker ones, if your own balance is lighter because their energy would not be a good match. People forget that all the DCs are killers. They have amazing minds and abilities that center on positive things like art or music, but they curse and kill, too. They protect their worlds from things that are really unimaginably dark and twisted compared to them. By the way, there is really no such thing as 'karmic debt', unless you want to believe in that. I believe in honor, loyalty, strength, compassion; but some guy in the sky that makes sure some bastard that hurts folks gets theirs in the end? Nope. WE do that! We embody a quality that makes us protect our property, our children.

I understand that demons don't think in dualistic terms. But maybe because we've been taught it our whole lives to be dualistic it's interesting to think about what makes them in tune with their own selves. It's an interesting concept you gave me here is that these darker parts like the crypt demons and your story of seeing the crypt dancer filet someone, and the crypt lord feeding off pain, for them it's RIGHT. For the crypt demon it is as it is.

I'm used to thinking in Law of Attraction terms. One thing they may say is, "You wouldn't hurt someone else if you are in alignment with Source." Maybe a more demonolatry perspective might be "...in alignment with the Light Side of Source." Though Source is supposed to be nondualistic and more about Oneness of Everything. I believe (so far) that if you are in alignment with your True Self then if you need to curse someone it is apparent and you wouldn't have guilt. I don't believe in the law of karma because I haven't seen it ever actually work. I do however believe that we attract things to us and that matches our vibration like in Akelta's conversations with Mammon.

I actually have no issue with the darker demons versus the lighter ones because I consider myself to be a dark and aggressive violent person though no one who just met me would think that. Though I'm curious how they differ in day to day action. How do your darker demons compare to your lighter ones when working with them? Do they have different insights about your shadow self? Do they help you accept these darker aspects of yourself more? I'm not sure how that all works yet and you have a lot of companions so I thought I would ask.

I hope this explains more why I have a hard time wrapping mead around it.
Saber
Posts: 264
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Your favourite Demon?: Tezrian
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Chrysopaelian wrote:My morality these days is basically this:

Treat others as a part of your same system. That's not exactly "Do unto others as you would want them to do to you," but rather treat people, animals, plants, resources, everything in a way that propels the larger System toward the kind of future you want to achieve. If that means healing someone, heal them. If that means cursing someone, curse them. But I try not to treat anything as foreign/other/external to my system, because it is all connected.

If you picture everyone and everything like a tree, some parts of the tree should be watered, some parts pruned, but think twice before setting anything on fire.

I really like this analogy and I think it's apt! I may adapt it as my own! Thank you so much. I totally agree it's all connected and I think it can be hard determining which branches to prune. I think it would be awfully rare to need to set the whole thing on fire.
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Vixen
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It is interesting you bring this up... this response is only directed towards parts of what you are asking but I felt called to explore it nevertheless.

I had never been one for cursing, always in a kind of live and let live flow. I would see into the pains and the shadows that brought these people to hurt me and so I would sympathize with that part of them and just drop it at that. Mind you I have demonic energy, and mutilation demonic energy which is on the darker spectrum... so it's not like I couldn't embrace the idea of it, it just seemed a waste of energy to me.

That is until very recently actually.

Flash back around last October, I connected magnetically with a pre-bound and yet i couldn't logically fathom why he might be called to join my path. He specializes in incredibly artful forms of baneful magick and curse-work. I had never had any sort of desire for anything of the likes. Obviously there is more to a demon than their scroll, but it just struck me as odd and I didn't want his talents to go underutilized. Anyhow, the connection was too strong and so I brought him home disregarding the sense that I wouldn't know what to work with him on.

And back to the present, er, present-ish. I met someone who I became very close to. She was unique; positing herself as this open and enlightened, kind-hearted, compassionate being...and yet she was overrun by the repression of her shadows. She acted out on narcissistic tendencies that I fell prey to, in a place where I wanted to be raw, vulnerable, and connected, where I wanted to forge a trusted bond with someone I thought I meshed with. One day, talking to a very close friend about the situation actually, the bubble just completely pierced and I saw into all the sick and underlying things that she was doing, in the twisting of her words, the twisting of my mind, it was horrifying. Processing this for a little I tried to open up to the girl about what I felt was taking place and she turned it all around on me to make it seem as if I was the crazy one. I was advised by my demons to just stop talking to her, to stop feeding into her dynamics, and just leave the vortex she was trying to keep me bound within. With this she only became more controlling, more nasty, more undermining and it was as if all her colors were finally exposed. I pulled away and she lashed out vindictively.

It was only when I was completely out of that situation and her vortex that I felt the rage completely bursting into my awareness like spurts of hot magma. In that moment I realized cursing is healing. Sometimes justice is not about letting someone -be- because you can sympathize with them, sometimes justice is handing back exactly that which they gave to you tenfold because who the fuck else is going to intervene? We are our own karma, and whatever we choose to do with such a stature, that's our choice. There is balance in this because perspective is fluid. It's obviously never so black and white as this person is bad that person is the victim, there are so many nuances to it. That's exactly what always used to fuck with my mind about the act... if it's not black and white who are we to decide they deserve this? Yet, we are the only ones who can make that decision. And when we know, we know.

Needless to say I had a long talk with my companion, and we finally figured out how to utilize those delicious talents of his.

Maturing into yourself is realizing the world can be a fucked up place, we are not doing anyone a favor in the grand scheme of this journey if we just let ourselves play nice and take the shit. We have to grow into our own morality, and honor it every step of the way. That is true balance.
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User3246
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Vixen wrote:It is interesting you bring this up... this response is only directed towards parts of what you are asking but I felt called to explore it nevertheless.

I had never been one for cursing, always in a kind of live and let live flow. I would see into the pains and the shadows that brought these people to hurt me and so I would sympathize with that part of them and just drop it at that. Mind you I have demonic energy, and mutilation demonic energy which is on the darker spectrum... so it's not like I couldn't embrace the idea of it, it just seemed a waste of energy to me.

That is until very recently actually.

Flash back around last October, I connected magnetically with a pre-bound and yet i couldn't logically fathom why he might be called to join my path. He specializes in incredibly artful forms of baneful magick and curse-work. I had never had any sort of desire for anything of the likes. Obviously there is more to a demon than their scroll, but it just struck me as odd and I didn't want his talents to go underutilized. Anyhow, the connection was too strong and so I brought him home disregarding the sense that I wouldn't know what to work with him on.

And back to the present, er, present-ish. I met someone who I became very close to. She was unique; positing herself as this open and enlightened, kind-hearted, compassionate being...and yet she was overrun by the repression of her shadows. She acted out on narcissistic tendencies that I fell prey to, in a place where I wanted to be raw, vulnerable, and connected, where I wanted to forge a trusted bond with someone I thought I meshed with. One day, talking to a very close friend about the situation actually, the bubble just completely pierced and I saw into all the sick and underlying things that she was doing, in the twisting of her words, the twisting of my mind, it was horrifying. Processing this for a little I tried to open up to the girl about what I felt was taking place and she turned it all around on me to make it seem as if I was the crazy one. I was advised by my demons to just stop talking to her, to stop feeding into her dynamics, and just leave the vortex she was trying to keep me bound within. With this she only became more controlling, more nasty, more undermining and it was as if all her colors were finally exposed. I pulled away and she lashed out vindictively.

It was only when I was completely out of that situation and her vortex that I felt the rage completely bursting into my awareness like spurts of hot magma. In that moment I realized cursing is healing. Sometimes justice is not about letting someone -be- because you can sympathize with them, sometimes justice is handing back exactly that which they gave to you tenfold because who the fuck else is going to intervene? We are our own karma, and whatever we choose to do with such a stature, that's our choice. There is balance in this because perspective is fluid. It's obviously never so black and white as this person is bad that person is the victim, there are so many nuances to it. That's exactly what always used to fuck with my mind about the act... if it's not black and white who are we to decide they deserve this? Yet, we are the only ones who can make that decision. And when we know, we know.

Needless to say I had a long talk with my companion, and we finally figured out how to utilize those delicious talents of his.

Maturing into yourself is realizing the world can be a fucked up place, we are not doing anyone a favor in the grand scheme of this journey if we just let ourselves play nice and take the shit. We have to grow into our own morality, and honor it every step of the way. That is true balance.
Vixen,
I have admired your ability to withdraw from drama. I told Akelta that I thought you were amazing to be able to do this. There is a balance of course. i think being able to see the shadows and hurts of a person is a very valuable thing, but you cannot let them hurt you! I have been hurt so much by black magick, and just negative energy! If I found out a person did those delicious acts to me, I would be hard put not to END them! I am learning the balance, and starting to release the pain and anger that cause me to act out like that. I have so much RAGE. It is not good for me to hold all this energy in. It makes me a target for sludge energy, which no one needs. I was pulled into a very negative pattern not so far back, and told myself, WTF?, why am I doing this? I asked Lord Uphir to cleanse me of that energy, and I saw everything I would have lost had I kept on that path. I just wanted to cry! I lost what I thought was a friend, but gained back my life. I do not have Demonic energy, but I have a strain of Dark Fae. People forget that it can be even more dark than demonic energies in some cases. I think I have so many Demon Companions partly out of fear, but it is a justified fear! They know what I have been up against. They protect me and allow me to learn to protect myself. My balance is DARK, but not an an reasoning and insane dark. There is Angel in me, too. To my credit, the only truly dark magick I have done has been against the ex, and only because he has not ceased to try to destroy my life. Yes, That is another pain which I will need to release. Because of health issues, I have not been able to get to the shadow work I know I need. Hard to work on meditations when you are in screaming agony! Sometimes when you forgive, you are giving a person a chance to heal....sometimes you are just making yourself a victim. I want to know the difference and be able to make that decision and not have the pain make the decision for me!
“If you really want to do something, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find an excuse.” – Jim Rohn

"The Master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."

Do not rely on ANYTHING, unexamined. If It does not seem to fit, ask about it. If it ultimately degrades or dishonors or holds you back, it is bad for you, so remove it from your life. If it takes from you and never gives back, it is a leech. Discard it. In magick rely only on your own work: What you have seen and done and used for your own self and in your own way. Only keep what in your own estimation is worth keeping. (Hellcat's Rules Of Satanic Magick)"

Don't get too close. It's Dark inside. It's where my Demons hide!

Hailing Satan isn't a hobby, its a lifestyle. (S@tan)
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SerenitySpells
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I have learned the hard way to try and stay out of drama, it is not worth it. Yet as a witch I curse when I need to, those times are rare and always involve my family. I become the Mother Bear and I will not stand for my family to be hurt. Now I'm not talking the everyday stuff that happens, I'm taking extreme bullying etc etc when that happens I will curse, then the anger swells and I do unleash it. Like wise I will heal very happily, in fact I rather enjoy healing and helping more than hurting. But I will not ignore the darker side within, and believe me my dark side could, if I let it be very dark. In fact when I go dark and curse it is like a warm hot water bottle inside me - very comforting.

But generally I just shrug things off as "who said life is fair" and "we all are doing the best we can" kind of attitude.

In the Thelema sense I live mostly with the "93/93" feeling.
:witch:

“One cannot step twice in the same river” – Heraclitus

“The unexamined life is not worth living” – Socrates
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