Satan and Suns

Chrysopaelian wrote:

Nyctophilia Raven wrote:
You know, of all the things that weird me out about Christianity (you know, like worshipping the image of their dead god's torture device) the ritualistic cannibalism was probably the biggest.

Like, even Christians who DON'T believe in actual Transubstantiation still say they're eating him at least symbolically. That's... Creepy af.

But... Like most polytheists who've escaped the snares of the dead god's followers, I'm a tad bit opinionated about the whole thing, so... Ymmv.

It's been interesting for me to go from being Catholic to staunch atheism to whatever it is that I am now. Some demons have reminded me that they don't *want* the kind of ass-kissing that Catholics give their god. And also that no one being is a catch-all for giving answers and taking care of problems--but if I have to think there is, to think that it is myself. Going back to old "religious" patterns/habits doesn't work at all in this case for these reasons.

Passchendaele wrote: I was an alter boy for five years, I had a ringside seat to whole thing and can say...it's bullshit. How could I tell? Cuz it was not a rare thing to see our priests have a wee dram of christ's blood before going on stage. That raised an interesting theological question...Are these guys getting trashed on...The Blood Of the Son-o-God? And let me tell you, I have seen many a priest doing the whole mass purely on the power of repetition. They had done it every day for years. They could be piss-your-pants drunk and still pull off a mass with no one the wiser. Especially the Irish ones, which, in my parish, were the only ones.

Well, I don't doubt your story, but they don't teach that the wine becomes the blood of Christ until it is actually consecrated up on the altar, after which it is distributed and what's leftover is either poured into the Sacrarium (which drains directly into the earth rather than a sewer system) or diluted with water until it is no longer seen as the blood of Christ.

In short, if a priest drinks it *before* Mass, he's still sinning (because you're supposed to observe a 3 hour fast from alcohol before consuming the Eucharist) but according to Catholicism he is not drinking the blood of Christ at that point, and is just drinking special wine. If a priest drinks it *after* Mass, he is, according to Catholic teaching, drinking the blood of Christ.

They never did get me to pay attention to the finer points. I think that's the difference between doing something because you want to do it, or doing it because you are not given a choice in the matter. My older brothers were altar boys, so..quit yer bitch'n and do what's expected of you.

Passchendaele wrote: They never did get me to pay attention to the finer points. I think that's the difference between doing something because you want to do it, or doing it because you are not given a choice in the matter. My older brothers were altar boys, so..quit yer bitch'n and do what's expected of you.

It's unfortunate that you were pressured into that. Forcing someone into a religious practice of any kind, especially forcing it onto an impressionable young person, is a sad and fearful practice. It amazes me that so many religions can pull off this "We're the poor persecuted religious people" narrative when those same people would persecute their own children for not following their own ways.

I was never an altar server, but I was part of the choir for a while. I actually still like and respect the nun that runs that choir. She said something once that really stuck with me, and it was, "If the bird with the loveliest voice is the only one that sings, the forest is dismally quiet."

Chrysopaelian wrote:

Passchendaele wrote: They never did get me to pay attention to the finer points. I think that's the difference between doing something because you want to do it, or doing it because you are not given a choice in the matter. My older brothers were altar boys, so..quit yer bitch'n and do what's expected of you.

It's unfortunate that you were pressured into that. Forcing someone into a religious practice of any kind, especially forcing it onto an impressionable young person, is a sad and fearful practice. It amazes me that so many religions can pull off this "We're the poor persecuted religious people" narrative when those same people would persecute their own children for not following their own ways.

I was never an altar server, but I was part of the choir for a while. I actually still like and respect the nun that runs that choir. She said something once that really stuck with me, and it was, "If the bird with the loveliest voice is the only one that sings, the forest is dismally quiet."

You both make excellent points. When I was forced to go to churches so our family (who were not Christian) could fit in with the neighbors, I hated every second of it. Looking back on it, I honestly feel, as you do, Chrys, that it was a form of abuse.

I also don't quite understand how a religion that holds such an enormous majority of members can cry persecution. They seem better at giving it than they are likely to receive it... but that's been going on for a few centuries. It seems built into the subconscious fabric of Christian reality.

When I joined an Episcopalian church's services for a few years in my early adulthood (the priest was a licenced therapist and I was receiving services from her at the time, and it was easier for both of us for her to pick me up before services on Sunday, bring me to the church, do the services, and have my therapy afterwards because she managed three churches on top of being an in-home therapist who was seriously overworked and underpaid - and no, it was not an ethical issue on her part - I was the one who suggested working together on Sunday afternoons because I had scheduling issues), and joining that church's services was completely my own choice, I learned quite a lot of really wonderful things there. Like, the fact that Christianity actually technically has a goddess (the holy spirit is female, apparently). We had a lot of absolutely fascinating religious discussions and found that with my shamanic and pagan roots, we still have a lot in common.

I haven't seen or spoken to her in about ten years, but she is one of my favorite people and she had a powerful effect on my life and my thought processes about philosophy and religion. I don't think I'd tell her, if I saw her today, that I'm walking the LHP and practicing Demonolatry, because I respect the fact that no matter how openminded a person, everyone has their limits of what they can cope with, and that's probably hers - but aside from avoiding that, I know we'd pick up our fascinating discussions all over again. Debating with her was a delight. She's a big reason why I'm a lot more tolerant of Christians than I used to be. I mean... I still think a lot of them are seriously ignorant of their own religion (or, you know, just plain i'ggerant)... but I'm more relaxed about the religion itself than I used to be.

And yes, some of the concepts we ended up discussing have definitely stuck with me. Women in leadership roles within the Church are a vastly underappreciated resource, wise and beautiful.