Satan and Suns

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:27 am**

Passemoon wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:30 am

HansPuchsbaum wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:53 pm

Kharybdis wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:57 pm

Even human best friends hurt one another sometimes, because everyone ultimately pursues their own needs and interests, and sometimes that runs counter to what someone else needs or desires.

No. Just no. Real friends never, ever, ever hurt one another. The very definition of friendship in my book is that you are willing to put someone else's interests, needs, and desires above your own. Otherwise, you're just acquaintances.
Sigh, in an ideal world at an ideal time and moment where we are all ideal people living with ideal one another, we can all put our hands together and sing kumbaya all day...

You can sing hallelujah for all I care, but if my statement isn't valid, we're not friends. Plain and simple.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:39 am**

Aprophis wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:43 am

HansPuchsbaum wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:26 pm
Nope. Nothing edgy about it. Let's say you wanted to achieve something, I mean really wanted ie "I'll get to my goal, or I'll die trying". Do you care about the danger? No. Do you care what and where the danger comes from? No. You're focused on your goal and any thoughts about the danger would disturb your focus.
You still should care about it and take any measures possible. Otherwise it's just reckless.
What you are talking about is like defusing a bomb by hitting random buttons. You don't care about the danger, you don't care where it comes from, you'll just get to defuse the bomb and die trying.
You'll probably die trying.

If I ever found myself defusing a bomb, it would most likely be in a situation where I don't have any other option. So again I would have no choice, but to do what I can ie. either difuse the bomb or die trying (since there are no other options). Thanks for helping me in explaining my point.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:51 am**

HansPuchsbaum wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:39 am
If I ever found myself defusing a bomb, it would most likely be in a situation where I don't have any other option. So again I would have no choice, but to do what I can ie. either difuse the bomb or die trying (since there are no other options). Thanks for helping me in explaining my point.

This isn't really what we were talking about though.
This is basically intentionally, knowingly, walking into a building with a bomb, without bomb suit and without caring about the consequences.
If you summon a demon, you don't just do that willy nilly right on the spot without preparation unless you have absolutely no choice. And you weren't talking about that or does that mean you never have a choice and always go in unprotected because it's a spur of the moment thing.
And it is only proper precaution to put on your bomb suit beforehand.

Also, normally you could still just walk away from the bomb, given the timer hasn't run out.

PS: any preconjured and (important) vetted (!!!!!) demon doesn't count.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:29 am**

Aprophis wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:56 am
Evil is a human construct based on our morals. There is no real evil in the universe, only action and consequence.
And who are you to say a supposedly evil being doesn't get their joy? Have you been said evil being? Did you not get your joy?
How do you know what they feel and think if you have not been them. This is a really big assumption.

The morals of demons are really different than ours. There are demon races that fight, kill, rape their own and it's totally normal in their society. Why do you think they would ever treat you any better if they treat their own that way?
You think based on terms of human morals and ethics that they would treat you within those parameters.
But they are not human, they are demons. They don't work within our laws, our justice, our morals, they are beyond that.

Yes i agree with the definition of evil as the moral construct only.
I also don't agree with seeing this word at such way.
So in my posts i should better use the term "destruction" or "negativity" instead of "evil", that would make my attitude more clear.

Somewhere above i have also wrote that i consider destruction and construction both neccessary and equally worth in the universe, and that everything created is created with a reason.
Means that i don't consider those species as lions, snakes, scorpions etc. you have mentioned in the previous post, as the scum.
Nor as an evil.
I consider them just as what they are when they are seeking the food or self defence - dangerous, destructive.
Not evil, speaking in the human moral concept terms.

There are various species of the demons, also agreed by me.
I have already mentioned - based on my own belief system - lesser and higher ones.
You believe that there are even more species, and we both agreed that some of them could be dangerous.

Want to ask you, because i didn't get your opinion about those: how do you define the moral of higher demons, such as Demon Lords?
Maybe we agree in more than it seems now.
Maybe you would define them similar as i, that they are spiritually highly aware entities whose "culture" and concept is about deeply understanding the force of the destruction and negativity in others, so reacting to these from the high emotional vibration in order to break the obstacles what makes one vibrating low (so acting negatively).

And finally... from my point of view negativity and destruction, such as rape, violence, murder of the innocent, disrespect, retaliation, war, hatred and more, are nothing but the signs of poor awareness and consciousness.

Cultures based at these are at the lower point of spiritual development than those based at love, tolerance and understanding.
But these are going to evolve, as every living creature tends to, because rape, murder, disrespect, humiliation, vengeance and hatred never brought anything truly good to anyone, only further pain and destruction, nothing as beautifull as the real peace and inner peace are.

Those who, for example, live in the culture at the low level of awareness in which one gender can rape the other legally, suffer much more than those whose culture punishes these with the force of the law.

The point is - they are suffering.
You cannot take punches and enjoy, and when you punch back you might raise your vibration from humiliation/shame to anger, so feel slightly relief, but that's still far from the high vibrational emotions such as love and peace you tend to achieve as your final goal.
And i don't even have to mention that this one whom you punched back, will most likely punch you back too, so your fake feeling of joy because successful vengeance will vaporize very soon, and you will most likely notice that you spend your whole existence at the continuum which spreads from the shame to anger, boldness the most...
That you take punchess all the time.
That you can't trust anyone because in such cultures everyone could be your potential enemy.
That you are lonely in the crowd of blood seeking loners.
Not very pleasant emotions.

If we believe in ego existence, than we believe in an existence of self defense mechanisms, which turn on whenever ourSELVES are threatened or attacked.
If some creature/spirit/whoever wouldn't have these mechanisms, it would be destroyed very soon.
And that's what, in my opinion, makes the existence of such species impossible.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:53 am**

Nemesis wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:29 am
I have already mentioned - based on my own belief system - lesser and higher ones.
You believe that there are even more species, and we both agreed that some of them could be dangerous.

Want to ask you, because i didn't get your opinion about those: how do you define the moral of higher demons, such as Demon Lords?

Define higher demons. Svengali for example is a demon lord and still has a harem of female slaves that he tortures, rapes and then discards them.
And uses that energy from their suffering for execration magic
Just because they are demon lords doesn't mean they are higher. It just states how powerful they are.

So what do you mean with higher? Higher vibrations? Higher vibrations don't mean they're nicer. There is high vibrational sludge beings, high vibrational feeders, those are not nicer and better. So higher vibration, just as 'light' does not denote higher morals or anything.

When you look at divinity, something divine, that doesn't mean it's good. Divinity is dualistic in nature, there's light and dark divinity. You even have Black Arts beings that are divine, because they represent exactly that part of divinity that's cruel, destructive and malicious.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:31 am**

Aprophis wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:53 am
Define higher demons. Svengali for example is a demon lord and still has a harem of female slaves that he tortures, rapes and then discards them.
And uses that energy from their suffering for execration magic
Just because they are demon lords doesn't mean they are higher. It just states how powerful they are.

So what do you mean with higher? Higher vibrations? Higher vibrations don't mean they're nicer. There is high vibrational sludge beings, high vibrational feeders, those are not nicer and better. So higher vibration, just as 'light' does not denote higher morals or anything.

When you look at divinity, something divine, that doesn't mean it's good. Divinity is dualistic in nature, there's light and dark divinity. You even have Black Arts beings that are divine, because they represent exactly that part of divinity that's cruel, destructive and malicious.

Looks like we have different concepts and definitions of those demonic species, and most likely different definitions of the high vibration.

What's the high vibration by your definition?
Do you mean at the high emotional vibration or something else?
And what's your definition of "divine"?

To explain my definitions of these:
Demons = lower and higher. Similar magical power, but different level of spiritual development (awareness, consciousness)
Demon Lords = the most spiritually advanced demons...
Huh, maybe i should change this term as it's the one Satan&suns use in their concept of the demons, and my concept is different.
High vibration = high emotional vibration. Joy, peace, love, understanding, enlightenment. The ultimate goal behind everything one living creature wishes for.
Divine = human construct for god-like. In my definition god-like means spiritually highly advanced, developed, in the peace with themselves and the others, so - fully aware, because closest to these final goals we all tend to.

Hope it explained you my point of view more.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:04 am**

Nemesis wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:31 am
What's the high vibration by your definition?
Do you mean at the high emotional vibration or something else?
And what's your definition of "divine"?

To explain my definitions of these:
Demons = lower and higher. Similar magical power, but different level of spiritual development (awareness, consciousness)
Demon Lords = the most spiritually advanced demons...
Huh, maybe i should change this term as it's the one Satan&suns use in their concept of the demons, and my concept is different.
High vibration = high emotional vibration. Joy, peace, love, understanding, enlightenment. The ultimate goal behind everything one living creature wishes for.
Divine = human construct for god-like. In my definition god-like means spiritually highly advanced, developed, in the peace with themselves and the others, so - fully aware, because closest to these final goals we all tend to.

Hope it explained you my point of view more.

The definition of divine is something pure, so pure it's basically an immovable force. And that includes bad things too.
Highly evolved also doesn't mean good. Spiritually higly advanced doesn't mean good.
That is purely your definition of spiritually highly advanced, which is a little new agey, tbh.

Your definition spiritual development is purely personal and pertains to you and you alone.
Look into Vamachara, ascenscion via descenscion. Becoming divine through becoming pure in your impurity.
There are other, darker ways for spiritual development.

If you go spiritually advanced, there's also a place where a single life doesn't matter in the big picture, nor does the suffering of a single human being.
All those things are ambivalent and as already said, you cannot put your human standards and definitions onto beings who have lived for what might be billions of years.
And since the nature of the universe is in balance, the ultimate goal of some living creatures might still be the suffering of others. Their pure, emotional vibrations might be high, but they might not be 'nice' at all per your definition.
There is a thing such as sacred murder, for example.

Honestly, throwing all dark lords into a pot and say they're spiritually all highly advanced and bring joy, peace, love, understanding and enlightenment is basically turning them into the abrahamic angels as many christians look at them.
Or, in new aged terms, ascended masters. But the ascended masters were human. We're not talking about humans with human standards, viewpoints, morals and understanding.

So you would have to see it individualistic on a person to person and demon to demon level, and just as you said, you have your own definition of Demon Lord. So the lords that meet your expectations in terms of morals are Demon Lords for you and since that is your personal opinion, it's just as valid or not valid as any other opinion.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:08 am**

HansPuchsbaum wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:53 pm
No. Just no. Real friends never, ever, ever hurt one another. The very definition of friendship in my book is that you are willing to put someone else's interests, needs, and desires above your own. Otherwise, you're just acquaintances.

Okay, but a demon is not your friend. Have you tried human friendships instead?

Nemesis wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:38 am
1. Here we disagree. Explained my view at it already. Whatever one wishes the final goal of the wish is the emotion of inner peace and joy.
What do you think, what's the final goal?

You're not wrong about this - most people's end goal is happiness. Where I disagree with you is that this is a psychological angle, not a spiritual, existential one. You can have a personal goal to be happy, but that doesn't mean that the ultimate, objective, universal purpose of existence is happiness.

2. Demons are spirits just as we.
They also communicate with us/react at us following the concept which matches the concept of our psychology, so that's why i think it's kinda similar.

That's the human tendency towards anthropomorphism. Fairies are also spirits, just as we are, but their psychological make-up differs a lot from ours. That becomes very obvious when you read the lore that directs you not to thank them because they'll take offence. I don't get your basis here.

If we accept that demons have the same psychology as us, then we also have to accept that they face similar problems as us and would benefit from therapy. I don't know about you, but I'd be very surprised if Asmodeus, who "appears with three heads; the first is like a bull, the second like a man, and the third like a ram; the tail of a serpent, and from his mouth issue flames of fire", would benefit from a book like 'The 7 Habits of Happy People' or something.

3. I think psychological development is the main card in that.
Spiritual development cannot happen if you are emotionaly broken and unstabile.
You can have some spiritual powers tho, you can be successful in using these, but you will just harm yourself at the end of story.
Just like i said above: you can successfuly curse for example, also as a spirit itself you can project to someone's home and split them at half, but you won't get back anything than their negativity and possibly the vengeance too.
Even the afterlife one.

There's our fundamental disagreement. It looks like you define 'spiritual development' as a sort of enlightenment that leads towards peace. I define 'spiritual development' as 'having supernatural abilities'. My gripe with this is that I don't see a spiritual component in your definition. It's a psychological model, but what does it have to do with the occult?

4. The belief is our fuel imo. Have you ever succeed to attain some successful magic with believing you cannot achieve it, or with doubt of any kind?

I've consistently succeeded.

HansPuchsbaum wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:00 pm
But of course, they are. Try meditating if you don't believe in meditation. Try summoning spirits if you don't believe in them. Try getting that girl you like if you don't believe you can get her. Good luck in all three cases.

I've done those things and belief was irrelevant in all of them. If belief had any power, delusion wouldn't exist. Doubt is integral if you wanna get better at what you do. If your method doesn't work unless it gets a pep talk beforehand, there's something wrong with your method. Try baking a cake without believing you'll ever make a cake. If you follow the goddamn recipe, you'll bake the cake anyway.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:16 am**

Aprophis wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:04 am
The definition of divine is something pure, so pure it's basically an immovable force. And that includes bad things too.
Highly evolved also doesn't mean good. Spiritually higly advanced doesn't mean good.
That is purely your definition of spiritually highly advanced, which is a little new agey, tbh.

No good. Human moral construct. Better term - positive.
Constructive force.
From my point of view, the highly evolved wouldn't be so high not evolved if dwell in negativity and destruction, because it would consume itself, implode.
Or in the better case, stagnate in their eternal struggle.
To me, negative behavior is the sign of the struggle with oneself, because as an individual with ego one needs the peace and safety to flourish, not struggle and un-safety.
Why the sludge entity feeds itself - an example - with our negative emotions?
Because it needs food to flourish, it needs that to survive.
Basic instinct.
But what does it get back from us, whom it consumes?
Banishment of course.
So - struggle for food guaranteed!

When it would decide to change that self destructive pattern of feeding and start to feed at the positive emotions of other beings it affects, for example, there would be no struggle for it anymore.
Or, if someone thinks that it likes to live in eternal struggle in the permanent losing/seeking the new food...
...well, maybe, maybe the creation didn't give it ability to become aware of the uselessness of that, maybe the creation has its reason for that, but than this creature will never become greater than it is right now.

And yes, would like to change my attitude about the "great" and "not great".
I am throwing away these terms as unneccessary and irrelevant.
My eyes are opened right now, and you helped me with defining your approach to "good" and "bad" are equal.
I was actually aware of this, but now i have become aware of the "great" and "not great" doesn't exist as "one is more worth than another" too.
Right, some specimen can do negative stuff because they are created like that but only like that, for the reason!

Just like animals are created like they are, with lesser level of cognitive ability and abstract/creative thinking than people for example, with the reason.
Just like demons are created like they are, superb to us, with the reason.

But i am staying with my attitude in one thing: the creatures created with the brain and mind capable of realizing how to serve themselves better, how to achieve their goals on the shorter and smoother way, what means without living in the eternal struggle but eternal love, should go for their best.

So the species of demons which are superb to homo sapiens in cognitive way, too!

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:48 am**

Nemesis wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:16 am

No good. Human moral construct. Better term - positive.
Constructive force.
From my point of view, the highly evolved wouldn't be so high not evolved if dwell in negativity and destruction, because it would consume itself, implode.

If you think 'destruction' is a negative, unevolved trait, then you're never going to grow. This really isn't a matter of opinion, it is a matter of experience. You cannot become something better without destroying the old first. This destruction can take your world and turn it upside down in the worst way possible, it can kill, it can maim, it can shatter everything you know. Destruction is another side to Creation and that duality is pure. Destruction isn't a lowly construct that takes us further away from spirit.
Hell, consideration of it is the same in most spiritual paths if you take a close enough look, that healthy reverence for or at least acknowledgment of death and destruction and its sacred necessity.

A divine/higher being carrying a destructive force is not consuming itself by that nature, because that force is inherent to its being, much like it's inherent to us to breathe.

If you believe that a 'constructive force' without a destructive force makes any sense for your growth, this is quite beyond me. I'm not out to crush your individual beliefs, but when they don't even make sense it comes across as though you don't have a decent grasp of *why* you believe in what you do or how that has functioned for you.

HansPuchsbaum wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:26 pm

Nope. Nothing edgy about it. Let's say you wanted to achieve something, I mean really wanted ie "I'll get to my goal, or I'll die trying". Do you care about the danger? No. Do you care what and where the danger comes from? No. You're focused on your goal and any thoughts about the danger would disturb your focus.

When I want to achieve something, really want it, I make sure I am doing what it takes to get precisely what I want. There is no 'or I'll die trying', because I am doing it right. If you are capable of doing something right, why would you sabotage your own chances by knowingly avoiding the information you need to do so?
If you have a target goal in mind and you really care about being successful, you're not going to jump in unprepared. Without an awareness of the danger or a willingness to even be aware of it, you just come across as ignorant and careless.

Trial and error happens when you are learning 'how' to do something. Taking needless risks, unaware of the nature of the dangers, it all happens when you are learning. Once you learn 'how', then you do it properly. It's quite simple.
So I would guess you're talking about approaching things from a place of not knowing how to actually do them. I can tell you that once I take the risks to learn how to do what I need to do, I'm not going to then risk the operation being correct by applying an ignorance I had beforehand.

Satan and Suns

Never summon what you cannot banish? Opinions/ideas?

Re: Never summon what you cannot banish? Opinions/ideas?

Re: Never summon what you cannot banish? Opinions/ideas?

Re: Never summon what you cannot banish? Opinions/ideas?

Re: Never summon what you cannot banish? Opinions/ideas?

Re: Never summon what you cannot banish? Opinions/ideas?

Re: Never summon what you cannot banish? Opinions/ideas?

Re: Never summon what you cannot banish? Opinions/ideas?

Re: Never summon what you cannot banish? Opinions/ideas?

Re: Never summon what you cannot banish? Opinions/ideas?

Re: Never summon what you cannot banish? Opinions/ideas?