Similarity between Draugr or 'the undead' and haunted dolls: How do you think they all 'work'?

[OuranosLibrary]

The notion of moving corpses once prevalent in Ancient Times seems to be phenomena to Haunted Dolls in that they are both allegedly able to move and physically interact with the environment as well as other people around them?

Do you think they actually move in those cases and are best secured by being locked inside a container they cannot exit or is it entirely an ethereal phenomena?

People have ruled out alot of phenomena in relation to 'moving corpses' or narrowed it down to just being 'ghosts' which inhabit bodies that come out to attack people.

Some verifiable phenomena that consists of reanimation reported by the Norse people which verified a Draugr would consist of a body suddenly sitting up, followed alongside with other poltergeist-like activity. Even today with scientific knowledge, a body literally sitting up is not considered possible.

At the same time bodies being able to 'sit up' from poltergeist activity does not mean full reanimation would be possible, although you could say they might be inhabited by either the person who once lived in it or by another malicious spirit (As is the case in Indian folklore).

Likewise for haunted dolls people have reportedly been attacked and reported injuries on physical bodies or seen them move on their own in some instances.

How do you think this stuff all works for haunted dolls and for maybe allegedly 'moving bodies' like the Draugr or similar beings from other cultures in genuine paranormal cases?

[Leo Sierra]

I think a lot comes down to embalming and preservation methods. A 'fully natural' corpse might move a bit due to gases from decomposition. Also it could change position during cremation due to the contraction of ligaments and muscle tissue caused by heat.

I think haunted dolls are actually closer to a form of automaton or artificial intelligence. It is possible for the devoted and pure belief of a child for example, to create a thoughtform attached to a physical representation.

Although there are religions that believe a human soul can be trapped and contained, usually it is sealed in some form of container and rendered incapable of acting without the direction of the sorcerer who imprisoned it. So they would need to send it to attack or haunt someone.

[Dragonoake]

I think a lot comes down to embalming and preservation methods. A 'fully natural' corpse might move a bit due to gases from decomposition.

There are stories about a corpse moving, or even sitting up, during the funeral

I think haunted dolls are actually closer to a form of automaton or artificial intelligence. It is possible for the devoted and pure belief of a child for example, to create a thoughtform attached to a physical representation.

I tend to think of it as a vessel, but I don't know enough about the phenomenon to form an informed opinion about its ability to move

[OuranosLibrary]

I think a lot comes down to embalming and preservation methods. A 'fully natural' corpse might move a bit due to gases from decomposition. Also it could change position during cremation due to the contraction of ligaments and muscle tissue caused by heat.

I think haunted dolls are actually closer to a form of automaton or artificial intelligence. It is possible for the devoted and pure belief of a child for example, to create a thoughtform attached to a physical representation.

Although there are religions that believe a human soul can be trapped and contained, usually it is sealed in some form of container and rendered incapable of acting without the direction of the sorcerer who imprisoned it. So they would need to send it to attack or haunt someone.

Yeah but there are some which cannot be caused by that as mentioned. For example if you asked a mortician educated in those processes, even they would say that 'sitting up' is not possible.

I suppose it depends, what would be the tell-tale signs that would be present if it was real and what can be down to that phenomena. Would there be foot-prints in the ground, etc and what actual vocal sounds would be told from ones caused by gas? With the Draugr it was 'sitting up' in combination with poltergeist-like activity following.

Even then, people aren't typically buried in ways which make it easy for something like that to leave.

In both instances though its confusing to say whether any stuff that happens would be physical or instead in a state of being close to physical but isn't. People argue alot that neither dolls nor bodies can move on their own because they don't have the mechanisms which would allow it.

[Dragonoake]

In both instances though its confusing to say whether any stuff that happens would be physical or instead in a state of being close to physical but isn't. People argue alot that neither dolls nor bodies can move on their own because they don't have the mechanisms which would allow it.

Another possibility would be PK
This is from an old movie, and serves primarily to illustrate a point

Notice that the corpses in the movie are in a perfectly natural state; which is to say they haven't been animated or zombfied in any way shape or form
They aren't walking around, nor are they out actively looking for victims, they're simply being moved around by PK with no need for any kind of working muscles
If this is possible, then I see no reason why the same couldn't be done with a doll, a stick, or a skillet

[OuranosLibrary]

In both instances though its confusing to say whether any stuff that happens would be physical or instead in a state of being close to physical but isn't. People argue alot that neither dolls nor bodies can move on their own because they don't have the mechanisms which would allow it.

Another possibility would be PK
This is from an old movie, and serves primarily to illustrate a point

Notice that the corpses in the movie are in a perfectly natural state; which is to say they haven't been animated or zombfied in any way shape or form
They aren't walking around, nor are they out actively looking for victims, they're simply being moved around by PK with no need for any kind of working muscles
If this is possible, then I see no reason why the same couldn't be done with a doll, a stick, or a skillet

Seems to make sense, like the Germanic cultures believed if they could animate a body then they could also affect things like the weather to mess up crops or make stuff fly around. The people who believed it to be a physical phenomena as opposed to a very corporeal and dense ghost.

I don't know if maybe the parts about them taking life force were added in later or if it did happen in a form similar to really devastating "psychic/chi vampirism", just saw that it was presumed they ate the same things normal humans did and as a result targeted cattle.

Some of these at the same time like the cattle deaths or weather events could have just been events that humans blamed on them though which had natural causes.

[Peppercorn]

I think haunted dolls are actually closer to a form of automaton or artificial intelligence. It is possible for the devoted and pure belief of a child for example, to create a thoughtform attached to a physical representation.

That is a fascinating hypothesis I have never seen anywhere else, especially the comparison to AI. I have two tulpa entities I created and bound to stuffed animals. I have never seen them move autonomously, but I've found them positioned in uncanny ways. Such as when I was laying face down, crying in despair, and looked up to find both of them gazing right into my eyes as though offering comfort.

[Wynd Runner]

That is a fascinating hypothesis I have never seen anywhere else, especially the comparison to AI. I have two tulpa entities I created and bound to stuffed animals. I have never seen them move autonomously, but I've found them positioned in uncanny ways. Such as when I was laying face down, crying in despair, and looked up to find both of them gazing right into my eyes as though offering comfort.

It never ceases to amaze me how much our spirit companions are there for us.

Thank you for sharing

[Peppercorn]

That is a fascinating hypothesis I have never seen anywhere else, especially the comparison to AI. I have two tulpa entities I created and bound to stuffed animals. I have never seen them move autonomously, but I've found them positioned in uncanny ways. Such as when I was laying face down, crying in despair, and looked up to find both of them gazing right into my eyes as though offering comfort.

It never ceases to amaze me how much our spirit companions are there for us.

Thank you for sharing

Indeed! This was the moment when it really sank in that just because I created my tulpas from my own subconscious mind instead of them coming from elsewhere doesn't make them any less real or my relationships with them any less deep and meaningful. Using stuffed animals or dolls as vessels gives them quasi bodies and creates a lot of opportunity for enriching physical interactions. Or possibly injurious physical interactions, like mentioned previously, if the thoughtform is fed fear, anger, or malice.

[OuranosLibrary]

Another thing is it seems like people might have believed in parts of the world is that 'animated bodies' could 'teleport' or suddenly wind up outside of their original place and then return after their business is finished. People today have similar experiences with haunted dolls it seems or is it actually just movement? The other phenomena that people still get sometimes today in Mausoleums, just as with the more malicious haunted dolls or ones who feed on energy is 'being scratched' I think.

It seems more practical for a spirit to utilize an energy body to manifest as an extremely dense ghost which can seem 'physical' and shapeshift though than rely on a physical vessel, because its much easier for them to be caught if they were using a physical body (Although yeah, it seems like people would be terrified).

What do you think guys?