A Spirit Keeper's Sanity Check

Questions and Answers for where to begin on the Darker Spiritual Paths.

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Noctifera wrote:No, I have never made these mistakes. Because, cynicism.
Rather I am someone who has been advising this from the get-go on CHF particularly, and am continuously ignored by those who need to hear it most.. lol. That is always going to happen..
The problem (and blessing is disguise) is that most people don't care about these warnings.. most of the time, the only way they will learn is from making mistakes (but then again some will never learn, because they do nothing to work on their own skillset/intuition).

There's a lot of ridiculous sh*t out there right now as the online meta community grows and grows, and no amount of warning is going to detract gullible or simply misguided persons from the shiny of it all. That sounds, maybe, rather dismal to say.. but it's just the way things are. One might argue that it's also a bit harsh, for how are people to maneuver - without error - this fascinating terrain of the unseen, it being indeed unseen.. however I think anyone who values the practice of observation can do it. We were all new to some aspect of this occult world at one time but not all of us have fallen into traps, or impulsively dove into the experience without a foundation.

For all the knowledge to be had, there is enough naivety or wishful thinking to match it, and enough traps to snap up after that unfortunately. And we can't protect everyone. It happens in any area of life.

Just my quarter dollar.
Thanks Noc. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it and tries to provide break-check warnings. It seems like so much of what's said though... Well, you know. I will keep trying to help guide those who wish where I can. But sometimes the horse won't drink! Hahaha... Thanks again! :) :devilthumbs:
"Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt gaze upon my field of fucks, and ye shall see that it is barren." -Bathosias

"Allow me to quote myself" -Bathosias
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Bathosias wrote:Let me begin by saying that this may seem like a rant. It is in the sense that some of the behaviors I am writing about here I find personally offensive and a bit irritating. It is not a rant in that this is something I've thought about for some time before drawing these conclusions. Some of you undoubtedly will be offended by what I have to say. Some of you will agree. Some of you may start by being offended, but if you're really honest with yourselves and think things through, you may start to see where I'm coming from. I am NOT, repeat NOT a conjurer. I'm not a spell caster. I do not work for S&S or have any pecuniary interest with any conjurer or magickal service. The things that I do, I do for myself - not for public sale. So, there is no sort of conflict of interest to taint my view of things.

I, like many of you, found my way here by being in the spirit keeping community. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with any of that. And starting out on that path eventually led me here and to discovering my true path, which brings me here with all of you. I also learned a LOT of valuable lessons along the way. Some of those lessons, I hope either you, the reader, have already learned or will start to learn by thinking through what I'm saying. I also want to say that there are some legitimate magicians and conjurers out there. I'm not suggesting that there aren't. But, there are also frauds out there. There are people who will play on your hope, your naivety, and are more than happy to tell you whatever it is that you want to hear to make a quick buck.

If you're like me, you have bought into those hopes and dreams. You've bought into those lies. You bought into the idea that whatever the spirit is, no matter how far fetched, or whatever working is being offered, that it will magically make things better for you. And, if you're honest with yourself, more often than not, those were unfulfilled promises. And, more than likely, if you did follow-up on it, you were probably told that the problem was with you. That, somehow, you simply weren't doing things right. Why would you be told that? Well, 1. Because there is sometimes validity in this - these things take time, patience, and practice. But, 2. They really didn't tell you that up front, did they? They probably told you that spirit X, whatever it is, will fix all of that for you... Not that it was going to take time and practice. Which brings us to 3., that's the easiest answer to give to someone if you're running a scam. They're trying to scam you further by telling you that the problem isn't with their work, or their spirit, but it's with you. Therefore, they've upheld their end of the bargain. And, because that can be true (in the sense that bonding takes time, and skills develop over time), it's an easy out for the scam artist. But, where did that get you? A few more hopes pushed down the road, and several dollars (or hundreds of dollars) lighter. As I said before, these are hard lessons, and lessons I've learned first hand myself.

One of the biggest trends I see that makes me raise an eyebrow and shake my head is this notion that "if you believe it, it's true." This cannot be further from the truth. I've seen posts and ads proclaiming some of the most outlandish things I can think of: upgrading spirits or entities skills (seriously, how the hell would that even work...honestly?), strange cross breeds of entities (no matter how much you want to believe that a weretiger and a rainbow unicorn have created this ever-so-cute offspring, doesn't make it real), and completely redefining the very nature of the spirit/entity that is being conjured. You must exercise common sense. And by common sense, I mean that you need to do a real gut check and see if this is something that defies all logic, history, and lore, or if this is something that actually is possible/probable. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If you're wise, and intellectually honest, you'll do some research yourself - is this something that is based in actual lore outside of the spirit keeping community? Does it BASICALLY fit with what you know of that type of spirit/entity? Does it make sense? If someone is selling you something that doesn't have any root outside of spirit keeping, the buyer should beware. If someone is redefining a spirit or entity to something that is COMPLETELY outside of the known lore, the buyer should beware. If someone is trying to tell you that they can summon, bind, and attach a powerful entity to your soul? The buyer should beware (and for more than one reason - body bindings, especially to powerful entities, is a dangerous practice). If this process happens lightening fast, the buyer should beware.

I'm not saying that it's all fake - it's not. But, a lot of it is. Should you give an upstart conjurer a chance? Perhaps, but you should also do your homework and see if it is really something (be it a process, a spirit/entity, or a magickal) that makes sense. If something is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the competition, there might be a reason. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. A discerning buyer will take a hard look into these things. Is it a con? Should I have CONfidence in this seller? Or, are they just trying to lighten my wallet?

A lot of the issues here come from the very nature of magick. People want to believe. We all do. And, truthfully, there is MUCH in magic that IS worth believing in. But, there is a lot that isn't too. Once something starts looking too much like anime, or a video game, that should be your first clue to run. Your second clue is that whatever is being done is just an emerging trend. I.E., doesn't have any prior basis, or is only done in the spirit keeping community. Exercise good judgment and common sense.

Another of my pet peeves is how some conjurers pair you with the spirit/entity. You see an ad, it's not a custom conjure, and you're told that because you enquirer about that spirit/entity, that it must be a calling and it wants to be with you. If it's a custom conjure, the odds raise significantly that it DOES want to be with you. But, for those prebound spirits/companions... Have you ever wondered how often someone gets told "no, he/she isn't a good match for you?" In my experience, it almost NEVER happens that way. WHATEVER it is, they want to be with you. In truth, this is probably not really all that likely. Or, the spirit/entity just has really low standards and is willing to work with anyone. Either way, is that really something you want? Is that something you want to introduce to your family? Some conjurers will tell you, honestly, that a spirit/entity doesn't want to work with you. That's a good sign, but it's not immune to manipulation either. Just beware the astral groupies that are apparently ok with just working with anyone.

Yet another of my concerns is the number of spirits/entities that are portrayed as being sexual. EVERYTHING is sexualized here. I know that coming from me it seems shocking that I would have an issue with this. In full disclosure, I don't have ANY issue with sexual entities and beings. But, not all entities are sexual. And even those that are sexual don't necessarily want to be with just anyone. Sure, you want to believe that the spirit/entity wants to be with you...and the conjurer wants you to believe it too. Sex sells. It's much easier to sell a "spirit/entity" if the buyer believes that this entity absolutely "wants your sex" or "your seed" or to impart those things to you. Are there sexual entities? Obviously, yes, there are. But your unicorn isn't - at least not with you. Your dragon doesn't. Your fluffy turbo-charged robo dragon/gnome hybrid doesn't. If you have a difficult time, outside of the genre of anime, figuring out how a sexual act would really work between a human and whatever you're buying, then odds are good that there probably isn't a high chance that it "wants to give you it's seed." Most of the time, the entities that ARE sexual are anatomically similar to humans - that is, it isn't absurd to imagine a sexual act with that being. Demons (succubi) are one of the more well known examples. Again, step back, check your ego, and exercise some common sense.

Another thing to look out for are cross-pantheon hybrids that defy logic. This happens a lot with people who sell "demons." If you're being told that a known DL has offspring with something from another pantheon, you should question it. If it's a son or daughter of a DL made with another DL that is not a known wife or consort, or otherwise doesn't make sense, maybe you should ask about that too. Why would they do that? And, along the lines of what was mentioned above, why would a son or daughter of two DLs come through to anyone who is willing to purchase (and if they say that you have to ask the conjurer first to purchase...ask... I an almost guarantee that it "wants to be with you") it at a ridiculously low cost? And the demon set the cost? But that cost seems to be consistent with what is always being charged by that conjurer? Yeah.. Those are all red flags to me.

If you've made these mistakes - don't feel bad. Many of us have. Myself included. I wanted to believe. I really did. I was about to walk away from the metaphysical altogether when I found S&S. And, I took one final chance. I was seriously on the verge of just quitting. I can honestly say that working with my first demon here was unlike anything else. I've still had my struggles and have to work at things, but there have been undeniable tangible events that have convinced me of her power and influence in the world around me. And that's what saved me. I wouldn't go back. I won't go back. And that's why I'm here.

I hope that this serves as a warning to some of you who haven't thought much about these issues before. And I hope it serves as a reassurance to you who are either where I'm at now, or on the road to where I am now. I also hope it serves as a testament to those of you who are further on the path than I am, and to all those who know and love working with demons the way I do.

:devilthumbs:
I strongly agree with all of this thank you :devilclap:
I am one who feels uneasy at the amount of beings who are overly sexualized by other conjurers and people truly believe them. I have no ego whatsoever so I will never be one to buy a sexual preconjured being in the first place, like you said every being has standards (or maybe low standards) and I always take that into consideration. What if the sexual being isn't attracted to me whatsoever either because of my appearance, energy, personality or for whatever the reason may be. I always see in stores one second there are sexual preconjured beings or a being that is romanticized that is always gone within that day and before all other preconjured beings because of people naturally being more drawn to the sexual or romanticized ones. What will honestly happen if the being isn't attracted to the person whatsoever I can imagine the look on their face :cry:
Also I was told awhile back by this one conjurer that there was this female vampire who was a perfect match for me and she even strongly encouraged me to get the vampire. She said that the vampire will honestly desire no one else and exaggerated the whole situation more than it should've been. Well anyways I was looking forward to getting her after what she told me I was all hyped up and wanted to get her but when I went onto the site her listing wasn't there anymore and found out the vampire was given another home. I was devastated no lie but I know now, I learned the hard way unfortunately.....
"Take a lover who looks at you like maybe you are magic" - Frida Kahlo

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Oh I also went into this one guys shop and he claimed to be able to bind over 5000 strong demonic beings to your own body successful. He mentions how they can help in every aspect of your life and says they will obey their master (lol I'm sorry I had to laugh at that one :devilgrin: )...... wouldn't that be pretty scary to have 5000 demonic beings bound to your body though :deviljaw: :??:
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Noctifera wrote:No, I have never made these mistakes. Because, cynicism.
Rather I am someone who has been advising this from the get-go on CHF particularly, and am continuously ignored by those who need to hear it most.. lol. That is always going to happen..
The problem (and blessing is disguise) is that most people don't care about these warnings.. most of the time, the only way they will learn is from making mistakes (but then again some will never learn, because they do nothing to work on their own skillset/intuition).

There's a lot of ridiculous sh*t out there right now as the online meta community grows and grows, and no amount of warning is going to detract gullible or simply misguided persons from the shiny of it all. That sounds, maybe, rather dismal to say.. but it's just the way things are. One might argue that it's also a bit harsh, for how are people to maneuver - without error - this fascinating terrain of the unseen, it being indeed unseen.. however I think anyone who values the practice of observation can do it. We were all new to some aspect of this occult world at one time but not all of us have fallen into traps, or impulsively dove into the experience without a foundation.

For all the knowledge to be had, there is enough naivety or wishful thinking to match it, and enough traps to snap up after that unfortunately. And we can't protect everyone. It happens in any area of life.

Just my quarter dollar.
These are pretty much my thoughts too. Especially the part about diving in without any kind of foundation. I think this is the one big problem behind 99% of all other problems when it comes to spirit keeping. People dive into it without any foundation and then start raising conjurers to god-like status, believing anything they say, because they don't have any skill or experience to even begin to discern between what is real and what is basically a scam of one sort or another. And that wouldn't be that bad if it was a passing phase (everyone has a learning curve after all), but there's the tendency to always look for something to buy that will fix all problems (another spirit, a spell, a magickal object, a reading or service) instead of looking for something to do to develop the abilities needed. And then that something the person bought won't work (either because it never was meant to work because it's fake or the promises were outlandish compared to what it actually does) or because it still requires a basic level of skill for it to show results, that same basic level that the person who bought it lacked in the first place and that's why they bought the item. And then the person won't even want to admit it didn't work (they paid good money for it after all), or if they do, everyone will start saying how it's because they don't believe in it and that's why it didn't work. And instead of starting to work on the missing skill, the answer is always another item that promises the world.

I have never made these mistakes either. Not because I'm somehow better or more clever than everyone else (though ok yeah, I would never fall for some of the things I see people drooling over, but anyway) but because I was already a practitioner for years before I found spirit keeping and I had developed the skills needed to avoid that kind of unpleasant situation. But I've seen people who eagerly buy items that promise to allow them to know if a vessel is empty or not, or if it has a BA spirit bound to it instead of what the listing says.

I remember the first time I was talking with Akelta about something I was having difficulty with and she said "I can help, but people don't like my answers when they come to me with problems like that because I usually give them exercises." And I was like "Are you kidding??? That's exactly what I need! When I have a problem all I want is a hands-on approach and people usually give me vague philosophic talks or direct me to different sellers to buy all kinds of items!".

What saddens me the most in all of this is that it ends with people believing into some kind of delusion and robbing themselves of wonderful experiences that could truly change their lives. They are made to believe that the problem lies in some kind of unmovable block inside them that if they manage to remove, they'll suddenly be able to see spirits and talk to them the way they do with humans, or that the reason magic doesn't work for them is some kind of subconscious lack of belief. That they need to believe more.

And that's so sad because magick can do amazing things for a person. In fact, some of the outrageous claims I see in spirit listings can in fact be achieved with magic. But very few people ever get any substantial results from those items, so they collectively believe that magic isn't supposed to work like that. It's not so obvious. It's not so fast. It's not that transformational. It's subtle, that's why you don't see the signs. You don't believe in it, that's why you're discounting the small things. And it's all a lie. Because magic and working with spirits can truly break your world and re-shape it into what you want. It can re-shape you into what you want. It can give you the world (whatever that means for each person). I have achieved incredible, outrageous and sometime downright terrifying things with magick. And I'm not saying that to make myself seem special or badass or anything; I'm saying that because this is a potential that most people have to some degree or another. Not everyone, because not all people are predisposed for the same things, but if someone is drawn to magic and spirits, chances are that they are among those who have that potential.

And instead of this wonderful, amazing and terrifying thing that magic is, I see people who were twisted into being satisfied that an object is giving them a headache so it must not be just an empty vessel. As if a headache was what the seller promised when they sold them the item. And if you severe the connection like that between what an item promises and what it actually delivers, it's very easy to start believing that a cross between rainbow unicorn poop and your grandma's apple pie is possible and will actually be the one thing that will make you rich, because the mental process that would allow you to discern if something is doing what you got it for or not (does your freezer freeze things? If it doesn't, do you take it back to the store and demand your money back or do you just believe you have some kind of block or maybe that you don't believe in its freezing powers enough?) has been de-activated on purpose a long time ago and you don't even notice.
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Well said Heidi. I think a lot of this boils down to just plain lazy. We live in a society and culture that requires instant gratification without any work being put into it. We are now told all we have to do is attend college (no matter the degree) and you will come out making over 75K, we are told and given online dating sites where choosing a mate is a swipe away. I mean it's so insane to see it all unfold. So as far as the meta community goes, I can totally see how people do indeed expect the "magic rock" that they buy from some meta pro is going to give them infinite power and knowledge without any work.

My philosophy is, if there isn't work involved, it's bullshit and not worth it. Anyone who works in the spirit realms long enough knows that spiritual beings dont just leave golden poop on your doorstep, they give you the puzzle pieces to create the golden poop yourself but you still have to put it together, often without the picture for reference. If you aren't willing to spread those out and start building the foundation, well then you really aren't worthy of the results.

Now that said, maybe with BA beings it's different, I can't say because I have never experienced them but I could see how they may be more like negative little djinns and give you all that you want only to take it all away and more soon after. But that's speculation on my part.

One more thought too, when it comes to supporting other peoples experiences and beliefs. I think everyone knows I do paranormal investigations and my specialty is the darker stuff, things other teams won't touch. Nothing against the human spirits, I just prefer things that are inhuman, plus I can connect to them better. Anyhoo a couple people here know of one case I am working on now. The man claims to be being raped by an entity night after night . I have been to the home, we did investigate. The man is really nice, really clean home just normal really and there was no feelings of negativity or heaviness. Nothing major happened in the investigation, some wall scratching and some jumping on my back a few times but nothing major. Well things have ramped up for him of course, I did encourage him to go to the doctor which he did and he does indeed have some health issues that would cause similar symptoms that he was describing. That said, that doesn't mean he doesn't have something going on but honestly I am just having a hard time with the story in general. So I could be that person that tells him he is full of crap, that he needs mental health and that what is happening to him is all in his head, which would be detrimental to his state of mind, if not completely unethical. Who am I to say it isn't happening to him just because it seems totally unlikely and I don't' sense it? I am not a magical oracle that can walk in and determine that every time.

Or, i could roll with this and do a placebo banishing and clearing. The fact is something is indeed there, what it is, I am not sure but better to be safe than sorry. I have never had to do a placebo banishing but I think it is the best thing for this gentlemen. If something is there it will have to put up a fight to stay and at that point maybe we will know what we are dealing with

The moral of the story, don't ignore what people share with you, even if it sounds crazy for you and it isn't what you are experiencing. Spirits are fully capable, as we all know, of behaving differently with different people.

Now to plan when I am going to go stay in his haunted house of horrors and have a smoke out :)
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Heidi wrote:And if you severe the connection like that between what an item promises and what it actually delivers, it's very easy to start believing that a cross between rainbow unicorn poop and your grandma's apple pie is possible and will actually be the one thing that will make you rich, because the mental process that would allow you to discern if something is doing what you got it for or not (does your freezer freeze things? If it doesn't, do you take it back to the store and demand your money back or do you just believe you have some kind of block or maybe that you don't believe in its freezing powers enough?) has been de-activated on purpose a long time ago and you don't even notice.
Bahahaha that freezer example. Definitely must have a block... of ice stuck somewhere.

Yeah I agree with all of the above. I was born into the occult so I suppose I have been lucky enough to be raised into my own spiritual foundation, I learned a lot very early on and even though spirit/entity/magick 'keeping' was a newish concept to me, the skills of discernment I needed were there and my own healthy skepticism - allowing me not to waste my time, efforts, investments on that which are bs. It has always been extremely easy for me to tell when something is 'off' about any situation, person, practitioner, claim, etc.
And I don't expect everyone and their mother to listen to me when I urge something based on my own experience or intuition, rather I always truly hope people will begin to value their own capability and to invest more into their personal capability so they can pursue a more genuine path for them.

Indeed I have achieved fantastic, seemingly unbelievable things in the realm of magick and with my spiritual, demonic, entity and immortal companions. I am always in awe of the incredible REAL manifestations we can will through this path! And so it can be disheartening to see that potential wasted, or rejected, in so many ways by so many others.. though at some point you realize only the individual has control over their path and what it amounts to. These individuals must recognize that for themselves.
"Do you even know that I know everything? I can see you like a.. sponge."
Daxflame

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Boom, son!
"Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt gaze upon my field of fucks, and ye shall see that it is barren." -Bathosias

"Allow me to quote myself" -Bathosias
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Bathosias wrote:Let me begin by saying that this may seem like a rant. It is in the sense that some of the behaviors I am writing about here I find personally offensive and a bit irritating. It is not a rant in that this is something I've thought about for some time before drawing these conclusions. Some of you undoubtedly will be offended by what I have to say. Some of you will agree. Some of you may start by being offended, but if you're really honest with yourselves and think things through, you may start to see where I'm coming from. I am NOT, repeat NOT a conjurer. I'm not a spell caster. I do not work for S&S or have any pecuniary interest with any conjurer or magickal service. The things that I do, I do for myself - not for public sale. So, there is no sort of conflict of interest to taint my view of things.

I, like many of you, found my way here by being in the spirit keeping community. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with any of that. And starting out on that path eventually led me here and to discovering my true path, which brings me here with all of you. I also learned a LOT of valuable lessons along the way. Some of those lessons, I hope either you, the reader, have already learned or will start to learn by thinking through what I'm saying. I also want to say that there are some legitimate magicians and conjurers out there. I'm not suggesting that there aren't. But, there are also frauds out there. There are people who will play on your hope, your naivety, and are more than happy to tell you whatever it is that you want to hear to make a quick buck.

If you're like me, you have bought into those hopes and dreams. You've bought into those lies. You bought into the idea that whatever the spirit is, no matter how far fetched, or whatever working is being offered, that it will magically make things better for you. And, if you're honest with yourself, more often than not, those were unfulfilled promises. And, more than likely, if you did follow-up on it, you were probably told that the problem was with you. That, somehow, you simply weren't doing things right. Why would you be told that? Well, 1. Because there is sometimes validity in this - these things take time, patience, and practice. But, 2. They really didn't tell you that up front, did they? They probably told you that spirit X, whatever it is, will fix all of that for you... Not that it was going to take time and practice. Which brings us to 3., that's the easiest answer to give to someone if you're running a scam. They're trying to scam you further by telling you that the problem isn't with their work, or their spirit, but it's with you. Therefore, they've upheld their end of the bargain. And, because that can be true (in the sense that bonding takes time, and skills develop over time), it's an easy out for the scam artist. But, where did that get you? A few more hopes pushed down the road, and several dollars (or hundreds of dollars) lighter. As I said before, these are hard lessons, and lessons I've learned first hand myself.

One of the biggest trends I see that makes me raise an eyebrow and shake my head is this notion that "if you believe it, it's true." This cannot be further from the truth. I've seen posts and ads proclaiming some of the most outlandish things I can think of: upgrading spirits or entities skills (seriously, how the hell would that even work...honestly?), strange cross breeds of entities (no matter how much you want to believe that a weretiger and a rainbow unicorn have created this ever-so-cute offspring, doesn't make it real), and completely redefining the very nature of the spirit/entity that is being conjured. You must exercise common sense. And by common sense, I mean that you need to do a real gut check and see if this is something that defies all logic, history, and lore, or if this is something that actually is possible/probable. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If you're wise, and intellectually honest, you'll do some research yourself - is this something that is based in actual lore outside of the spirit keeping community? Does it BASICALLY fit with what you know of that type of spirit/entity? Does it make sense? If someone is selling you something that doesn't have any root outside of spirit keeping, the buyer should beware. If someone is redefining a spirit or entity to something that is COMPLETELY outside of the known lore, the buyer should beware. If someone is trying to tell you that they can summon, bind, and attach a powerful entity to your soul? The buyer should beware (and for more than one reason - body bindings, especially to powerful entities, is a dangerous practice). If this process happens lightening fast, the buyer should beware.

I'm not saying that it's all fake - it's not. But, a lot of it is. Should you give an upstart conjurer a chance? Perhaps, but you should also do your homework and see if it is really something (be it a process, a spirit/entity, or a magickal) that makes sense. If something is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the competition, there might be a reason. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. A discerning buyer will take a hard look into these things. Is it a con? Should I have CONfidence in this seller? Or, are they just trying to lighten my wallet?

A lot of the issues here come from the very nature of magick. People want to believe. We all do. And, truthfully, there is MUCH in magic that IS worth believing in. But, there is a lot that isn't too. Once something starts looking too much like anime, or a video game, that should be your first clue to run. Your second clue is that whatever is being done is just an emerging trend. I.E., doesn't have any prior basis, or is only done in the spirit keeping community. Exercise good judgment and common sense.

Another of my pet peeves is how some conjurers pair you with the spirit/entity. You see an ad, it's not a custom conjure, and you're told that because you enquirer about that spirit/entity, that it must be a calling and it wants to be with you. If it's a custom conjure, the odds raise significantly that it DOES want to be with you. But, for those prebound spirits/companions... Have you ever wondered how often someone gets told "no, he/she isn't a good match for you?" In my experience, it almost NEVER happens that way. WHATEVER it is, they want to be with you. In truth, this is probably not really all that likely. Or, the spirit/entity just has really low standards and is willing to work with anyone. Either way, is that really something you want? Is that something you want to introduce to your family? Some conjurers will tell you, honestly, that a spirit/entity doesn't want to work with you. That's a good sign, but it's not immune to manipulation either. Just beware the astral groupies that are apparently ok with just working with anyone.

Yet another of my concerns is the number of spirits/entities that are portrayed as being sexual. EVERYTHING is sexualized here. I know that coming from me it seems shocking that I would have an issue with this. In full disclosure, I don't have ANY issue with sexual entities and beings. But, not all entities are sexual. And even those that are sexual don't necessarily want to be with just anyone. Sure, you want to believe that the spirit/entity wants to be with you...and the conjurer wants you to believe it too. Sex sells. It's much easier to sell a "spirit/entity" if the buyer believes that this entity absolutely "wants your sex" or "your seed" or to impart those things to you. Are there sexual entities? Obviously, yes, there are. But your unicorn isn't - at least not with you. Your dragon doesn't. Your fluffy turbo-charged robo dragon/gnome hybrid doesn't. If you have a difficult time, outside of the genre of anime, figuring out how a sexual act would really work between a human and whatever you're buying, then odds are good that there probably isn't a high chance that it "wants to give you it's seed." Most of the time, the entities that ARE sexual are anatomically similar to humans - that is, it isn't absurd to imagine a sexual act with that being. Demons (succubi) are one of the more well known examples. Again, step back, check your ego, and exercise some common sense.

Another thing to look out for are cross-pantheon hybrids that defy logic. This happens a lot with people who sell "demons." If you're being told that a known DL has offspring with something from another pantheon, you should question it. If it's a son or daughter of a DL made with another DL that is not a known wife or consort, or otherwise doesn't make sense, maybe you should ask about that too. Why would they do that? And, along the lines of what was mentioned above, why would a son or daughter of two DLs come through to anyone who is willing to purchase (and if they say that you have to ask the conjurer first to purchase...ask... I an almost guarantee that it "wants to be with you") it at a ridiculously low cost? And the demon set the cost? But that cost seems to be consistent with what is always being charged by that conjurer? Yeah.. Those are all red flags to me.

If you've made these mistakes - don't feel bad. Many of us have. Myself included. I wanted to believe. I really did. I was about to walk away from the metaphysical altogether when I found S&S. And, I took one final chance. I was seriously on the verge of just quitting. I can honestly say that working with my first demon here was unlike anything else. I've still had my struggles and have to work at things, but there have been undeniable tangible events that have convinced me of her power and influence in the world around me. And that's what saved me. I wouldn't go back. I won't go back. And that's why I'm here.

I hope that this serves as a warning to some of you who haven't thought much about these issues before. And I hope it serves as a reassurance to you who are either where I'm at now, or on the road to where I am now. I also hope it serves as a testament to those of you who are further on the path than I am, and to all those who know and love working with demons the way I do.

:devilthumbs:
Very nicely said Bath it always helps to have '' some reassurance about anything in life agree with your post ;)
I Have Won Sinner Of The Month Five Times Now ' My Grandmother Always Said either Stand For Something are You Will Fall for Anything ' I am not Just Walking My path . I am Living it !
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Shifa
Posts: 1262
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Patron Deities: Ceiling Cat
Your favourite Demon?: Basement Cat
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What a fitting thread to stumble upon today ...
I am one of those dumb newbs who wasted a lot of time and money on bs only to end up with a lot of disappointment.
After everything I have nothing to show for it.
I really don't know what I'm supposed to do now.
I am a booknerd though, but I study history and folklore mostly. I've only skimmed and jumped around with magick systems, not really knowing what path to take. I guess I wasn't prepared when I jumped in to spirit-keeping, and got lulled in by the promises. "Spirit sex" was the biggest let down.

Also, there was something said in the OP about DLs mixing with other pantheons ...
Is anyone familiar with Angeldark/Angiepason? Does this mean the demonic beings she sells aren't true? Like my companion, the son of Baal and Epona?
Fall into the depths of nothingness beyond the dark
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Shifa
Posts: 1262
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:12 am
Patron Deities: Ceiling Cat
Your favourite Demon?: Basement Cat
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 81 times

What do you suggest for someone who wants to re-start with a new perspective, a smarter, fresher outlook, and move forward the right way?
Fall into the depths of nothingness beyond the dark
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