Mailbag** I want to know about conjuring using Solomons....?

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Akelta wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:02 pm
Q: I want to know about conjuring using solomons triangle?

A: We have never used Solomon's circle or Triangle to conjure, invoke or work with Demons. That is a tool used by ceremonial magicians and we are Demonosophers.  They are two entirely different paths with different ways of working.  

Some schools of magick teach about commanding and ordering the spiritual being to do one’s bidding.  These are not philosophies that we subscribe to or encourage.  As Demonosophers we work with demons from a place of respect and revere demons as the amazing and incredible Demon Gods/Goddesses that they are.  They are our friends, family, mentors, guides, companions, and we would never want to command or threaten them in any way.  It is highly disrespectful to do and quite often can bring dangerous reactions from the demons, who naturally have no desire to be trapped or ordered around.  

You can use circles as a protection means to define the sacred space and keep out any unwanted or curious entities that might be drawn to the energy of your ritual.  The circle can define a sacred space for you and the demon you have called to conduct your work without interruption.  In Demonosophy we do use circles to define the sacred space and shift the energies to make it welcoming for the demon.  

Triangles can be used as well but not as a method of confinement as some schools of magick teach, but as a way to focus the energies.  Triangles are very powerful and strong shapes and they can be added to your rituals in order to increase the energy.  This can benefit the demon and make it easier for them to come through and communicate.  

The intent of these tools are very important.  For some rituals the intent of the circle is to protect you from the creature that you are summoning, and the triangle is used to confine them to that space.  For the rituals that we like to use, the circle is used to define the sacred space for you and the demon.  It shows that you respect them and wish to make them as comfortable as possible and keep the ritual space as clear as possible.  When using triangles for focusing you can attune them so that they can work to raise the energies of the space and actually assist the demon with coming through to this plane.  I personally will never use any method of tool that is disrespectful and harmful to the demons.  I like to approach them with respect and show appreciation and gratitude for what they have given me and how amazing and incredible they are.  

I have worked with them for over 20 years and I have never needed a way to confine them or entrap them and I never will.  I also have never really had a serious problem, in fact I have experienced less problems working with Demons from a respectful place than people have reported working with them from a commanding place.  That is because of intent.  When you approach a powerful divine being from a place of respect they are going to show you respect back.. When you approach them threatening them and commanding them, you are going to get that back and when it comes back you better be prepared because these beings are powerful and they do not like being treated as door mats.  

Ask yourself how you would like to be treated if you were invited into a sacred space and go with that.  Would you rather be invited and given offerings? Or would you rather be ripped form your home, commanded to do the bidding of a magician then threatened when you didn’t want to?  Manners and Respect go a long way!
Agree that this should be stickied.

These are our gods and goddesses. Powerful and ancient beings that should be honoured.

Not all beliefs are worthy of respect. Some beliefs are downright hateful and should be condemned as such. The Solomon's triangle comes from a time when such vile practices as slavery and torture by the church/state were considered perfectly acceptable. Ideas and practices that should have no place in our world today.
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Noctua wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:24 am
The issue with regarding Solomonic methods as being inherently disrespectful is that this is absolutely misleading of the original context of those methods, of how these approaches vary depending on the mindset/interpretation of the sorcerer, and can establish a false implication that demons do not at all have the capacity to be dangerous or at the very least difficult to deal with.
I realize regarding the original post, some might not know what I am refering to. Allow me to post some screen shots to back up my statement, and add some depth to my answer.

The Grand Grimoire

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The Lesser Key of Solomon


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And this interaction from the Illustrated Goetia....


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This is what I was talking about in my original post and why as Demonosophers we tend to avoid such practises. Not only are they dangerous, as this is the fastest way to unleash the sinsiter side of the demonic divine, but I personally find these method of approach incredibly disrespectful and horrible.
Noctua wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:24 am
You can disagree with a traditional perspective/a deviant practice from your own and still respect its position in the historical background of later/new-age practices.
I use the traditional perspective as motivatin to get my methods out there and motivation to teach a more respectufl way of working with them. When I read the words I have posted above, I get angry at the treatment of demons and it motivates me to write more and create more. Education is a powerful tool.
Noctua wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:24 am
People are too ready to take offense to something that is posited differently than their relations with the demonic, there is ever this trend of defending entities labeled demon as if they need us to defend them and to make them out to be purely helpful saint-like figures when they are very old and deeply dualistic, right through to those which are entirely malevolent or can turn to be that way in an instant
I believe my writings speak of the various aspects of the demonic divine, from the layers of beautiful darkness to the sinister elements. Their complexity is vast and it is one of the reasons I enjoy writing about them. The issue I have is with the methods above. When you have an entity in a book screaming to make the pain stop and the author stating to not be alarmed at the sounds of horrible cries, and that this is all part of it to make them obey. I have a problem with that.

I have no problem speaking up against entity abuse, as a conjurer this is incredibly important to me. I will always work to educate people on more balanced methods of connecting that include both beautiful ceremonies as well as respecful practices. It's why I love the Demonolatry Rituals, they do the same. I did the same thing when it came to forcible and flexible bindings and talking about the difference. Education in these matters is very important.

Like all acts of abuse it only changes when we speak up and when we work to educate and reveal alternate perspectives. It's a lot of why I do what I do, a love of demons and education.

TaipanTwist wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:56 am
Agree that this should be stickied.

These are our gods and goddesses. Powerful and ancient beings that should be honoured.

Not all beliefs are worthy of respect. Some beliefs are downright hateful and should be condemned as such. The Solomon's triangle comes from a time when such vile practices as slavery and torture by the church/state were considered perfectly acceptable. Ideas and practices that should have no place in our world today.
Thanks guys! I have sticked it ^_^

I agree, there are some practises in the past that should stay there. This is true what you say, the human perspective of demons at the time was that they were lesser spiritual beings who were evil and needed to be contained. There was no question of whether of now it was acceptable to treat them like this becuase, in the view of the past, demons were evil and so it was necessary to torture them and confine them so they obeyed.

There is a lot of cruelty and abuse that we can find in history. I always advocate learning about history, only by learning our history can we stop it from repeating. It is why I tell people to read all the books, so they can get a clear persepctive of where we come from, but also to put into context why we do things differently and why some practices we dissuaded.

I have studied and researched the many differnet components of the past ituals. I have broken them down and uncovered what works and why the different components are there. I also have made reference to what doesn't work and rebuilt the rituals aroud this knowledge with respect of the demons in mind. My practice has always been 30% reading 70% direct action. I beleive this is why I have many of the incredible results that I do, it is also why I want to show you guys how to get these resutls as well.

Thank's guys! Great Discussion!
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I am quite familiar with what you were talking about, and I find it unreasonable to presume that anyone could actually hurt a powerful demon with these methods or that we need to be coddling powerful demons.

In essence I do not see why anyone is taking Solomon's magic so literally, it is almost comical if someone thinks Lucifer is actually crying 'oh please, stop striking me, oh please' as if it is a reality, as if the practitioner can actually abuse this ancient being.
The truth about these methodologies I am proposing is that if they work, they only work based on the pact of 'I will adhere to this, on the condition you grant me this.'
You have to be able to read through the lines instead of taking everything written in its direct appearance. There has to be some sort of actual logic applied here.

As demonosophers you are respected for your commitment to the practices you do, that is your path. I never criticized your practices.

However, if someone is coming around to ask about the reality behind Solomonic teachings then an objective perspective is important. I didn't see an issue in your original response, I was responding to some of the comments which have followed on this subject not only here but throughout the meta community at various points which appear very one-dimensional, biased and unrealistic. Taking this assertion that inherently 'demons are our friends' to a quite unnecessary level where honor and confidence in the power of these demons, turns suddenly to protecting those who do not need our protection; this I find equally audacious as the idea of one thinking they can just torment an entity into doing what they want.

Respectfully Akelta, the reality is more complex. When you have an entity in a book screaming to make the pain stop and presume that really happened, or occurred at all as it was written, that is problematic and we might as well just think anything that is written in these grimoires (or of history in general) really happens as stated. There is some far crazier shit 'portrayed' grimoires or magical manuscripts, and to believe it actually occurs as stated is not reasonable at all.

Anyone is free to believe this if it suits, but I see no worth in that other than to generate ire for the individual which is quite unfounded; there is a way of assessing the content unemotionally that would give us a more appropriate idea of what is happening, why it is happening, and what it actually amounts to that will lead to a more balanced conclusion. I don't feel like judging resources based on emotional attachment to a force or deity is going to merit a very clear view of the situation.
If we dislike what we see it doesn't infringe upon our values unless we take it personally, meaning to invest feelings in a concept irrelevant to our belief; I don't experience the demons as caring about this because there is an entirely distinct system of belief where it comes to the connection between demons and the divine if you are abiding strictly by Solomonic methods vs. anything else.

Ideally one could be discerning between parts they find value in of a foreign practice from their own, and those they do not agree with, rather than to entirely trash the resource when it has contributed to the history of those beings you engage with. This can apply with any/all lore revolving around deities of any pantheon where there will always be assertions or contemplations that deviate starkly from your own beliefs, personal experience, or have been coloured by religious shifts over time.
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Thank you for the clarity.  I am glad you see no issues with my original response.  Your reply though made me realize my original response might have been a little vague. I talk all the time about disliking the Solomonic methods without quoting sources, so I wanted to give some examples to highlight the specifics of what I was talking about.  I felt it was important to the discussion.    
Noctua wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 2:07 pm
I am quite familiar with what you were talking about, and I find it unreasonable to presume that anyone could actually hurt a powerful demon with these methods or that we need to be coddling powerful demons.
This is true, a true Outer Spiritual World Demon would not be confined or injured by such practises, and some Inner Spiritual World Deities as well. However, there are many spirits who can be harmed by these methods and some are subjected to them.  I have read stories, heard personal accounts, and even had requests for spirits bound forcibly so that they will obey their "owner".  So while some would have no issues that does not mean all are immune, and though there are people who would have no issues confining these spirits in that way and subject them to torture, many people just have no other knowledge of what to do and use what they find.  
Noctua wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 2:07 pm
In essence I do not see why anyone is taking Solomon's magic so literally, it is almost comical if someone thinks Lucifer is actually crying 'oh please, stop striking me, oh please' as if it is a reality, as if the practitioner can actually abuse this ancient being.
The truth about these methodologies I am proposing is that if they work, they only work based on the pact of 'I will adhere to this, on the condition you grant me this.'
You have to be able to read through the lines instead of taking everything written in its direct appearance. There has to be some sort of actual logic applied here.
The email this reply is crafted for is someone who was taking the methods literally.  Some people do take books literally when they read them, and then some go along thinking this is exactly what they need to do.  Then they act accordingly and end up getting hurt.  I tell people to read them for the knowledge, but say I don't recommend these methods for this exact reason.   I have known situations where people have been hurt, someone close to them has died, their lives have been shattered,  etc… All because of a smack down from trying to command a Demon and acting in a very disrespectful way.   Personal views aside, there is a component of safety around this.

Do I believe that this Lucifuge in the book is the one I work with?  No...  

Can I be disgusted at the Implication that someone would write about Lucifuge as a slave who is tortured when he doesn't obey?  Yes....

Do I believe that this method can be implemented and used against an entity who is more Earth aligned?  Yes...

As humans we have spiritual authority.  We see this in our ability to banish entities, remove them from our homes, force them out of our body, and claim spiritual authority over our space.  Protection shields and wards are built around the concept of spiritual authority.  Just as we can banish and remove an entity from our space, we can also torture and torment them.  There are entire spiritual practices involving trapping entities and spirits, draining their essence and torturing them to harness the energies to amplify and empower spells. So while a true Outer Spiritual World Demon is quite safe from this... other entities might not be so lucky.   
Noctua wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 2:07 pm
Ideally one could be discerning between parts they find value in of a foreign practice from their own, and those they do not agree with, rather than to entirely trash the resource when it has contributed to the history of those beings you engage with. This can apply with any/all lore revolving around deities of any pantheon where there will always be assertions or contemplations that deviate starkly from your own beliefs, personal experience, or have been coloured by religious shifts over time.
I can read history and disagree with it at the same time.  There are many historical eras and events that I greatly disagree with, and many practises that are downright dangerous, even look at some of the medical practises 50 years ago.  The procedures around childbirth are particularly distressing.   

I think in the end we all have differnet paths and perspectives.  It is good though to explore them and have these discussions as it allows us all to not only embrace the deeper meaning of our individual practises, but also the different perspectives that are out there.
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I find this discussion extremely interesting.

Demonolators do sometimes use a little of the Solomonic methods. A couple of years ago I was in a Goetia group on Facebook where everyone was respectful and friendly towards the demons they were working with. But some people experimented with ritual layouts that would give them more protection and shared them with others, and I tried one of these out.

it was just a sketched out triangle with a few mantric names written around it- no threats or magical weapons. I tried drawing it on a piece of card, not very well because I have a lot of trouble with geometric shapes, and I called Eligor to come into the middle. I can't remember now why I did the experiment with this particular demon and he was not one that I knew. The design didn't appear to make any difference- clairaudience is my thing, and he spoke to me the same as others in the past had done. (Including afterwards when I was out, and no longer even near the design I had drawn.)

Afterwards I stuck it behind a wardrobe and forgot it. Then one day when I was tidying, I decided to chop it up. Eligor told me that I had done the original ritual incorrectly and a tiny bit of himself had been trapped in it, though not in an unpleasant way, more like a bit of him was still identified with it. Now it would be able to leave. He was still friendly, like before.

In my experience demons do think it's a bit strange if human bengs want to protect them as they are so much more powerful than we are. However as other people have said, any kind of Solomonic method could be cruel if it is used on a little junior being.
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While reading S. Connley, Ihad commissioned a triangle but not as a Solomonic tool (hence the changes I made) but as a focus. On the outer edges I have Apollo Lucifero, Diana Lucifero and Latona Nyx as the main gods of my house lending their strength with the mirror at the center.

I haven’t used it yet since Im still research and reading but it’s there for when I’m ready.
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