Tim Curry is an Egregore - no, really!

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First of all, some help with terminology. An Egregore is an idea that has taken on a life of its own, caused by humanity continuing to contribute correlating information to flesh out that idea, in an ever-increasing pool of knowledge and understanding.


That means that, because we are a people of stories, there are a LOT of egregores that we interact with.

Hell is an egregore.

So is Wonderland.

The reason I was inspired to write about this, actually, came from an interaction in the Discord chatroom a few days ago. There was a conversation on one of the discord channels where someone was detailing their experiences with Wonderland and Alice. And someone else just... like, totally blew them off. "Because that's not real."

Except that astral is a mental realm - which means that every world that humans have given a significant amount of energy to (such as children, the greatest givers of all, to Alice and Wonderland) means that every truly beloved work of fiction is a world, somewhere.

As an egregore, eventually - because everyone just keeps adding ideas to it, fleshing it out.

But when I was poking at that idea with Telomar... I realized that a lot of things we don't usually think of as egregores, actually are.

Like... Tim Curry is an egregore.

Also, Christopher Walken - although in the opposite manner. Because Tim Curry's characters take on a life of their own and we end up wondering who the real Tim Curry is, and deciding that he's really this character or that one... and sometimes even HE doesn't know.

But Christopher Walken... is always Christopher Walken... so you end up with, like, meeting Gabriel the angel and discovering that he looks and talks like Christopher Walken (which was REALLY WEIRD, BTW).
We get phrases like, "Christopher Walken is (character name)." But we also get phrases like, "Frankenfurter is Tim Curry."

And we also get people who are so dedicated to an egregore that they cannot cope with the idea of someone else taking over - so when they decided to do a remake of IT, everyone was saying that the ONLY actor who will EVER be It is Tim Curry.

And we also have character egregores - like The Joker. The Joker is someone who sees the whole world for exactly what it is and DECIDED it was better to be crazy, as a coping mechanism. Actors who have played The Joker either get eaten by it (Heath Ledger) or find it really traumatizing (Jack Nicholson) - Nicholson actually reported that the character started infecting multiple aspects of his life. Heath Ledger couldn't cope with it, and already having problems with a drug addiction, it led to his death. And then there's the new guy in Suicide Squad (who everyone hates, even in real life), who is CLEARLY unstable, WAS unstable BEFORE he played the part... but even for him, people noticed that he became SO MUCH WORSE while working on that movie. To the point that he destroyed his career because no one will work with him anymore - he displayed signs of actual psychosis during the filming.



And while we're on the topic of egregores, here's another one. The idea of everything that exists (even non-linear/non-spatial spaces) had a proto-existence, or pre-existence, as an unrealized idea.

The way that egregores are formed always starts with an idea, which is then exposed to the world, and built upon. The idea of the United States is an egregore. The Akashic Library is an egregore, too.

Part of the egregore of the Library is that every idea that COULD EVER EXIST, already exists in the Library in perfected form - and whenever we bring an idea out into the world, it will never be quite perfect because the translation between the layers of the universe is imperfect. This idea most likely stems from both the universal idea of the Tree - whether you're a Native American who believes in the upper, middle and lower worlds, or you're a Norse practitioner who believes in the Nine Realms, or you're a Ceremonial/Kabbalist who believes in the ten Spheres and ten anti-spheres, or even if you're simply an average joe going through life with no thought to spiritual realities, everyone knows that the idea of As Above, So Below is one of filtration and imperfection - and the idea of a Source which is all things, and all times - and thus there is truly no original idea that that Source hasn't already been, and we're just getting the edges of it - Source/All being another egregore.



What ideas do you interact with on a regular basis which are actually egregores?
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“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” ― William Shakespeare, Hamlet
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This is a great post!

At the beginning of August, I evoked Polybius, which I think falls under the category of Egregore too. A video game urban legend that has taken on a life of its own, and has taken on a more personal meaning to me. Polybius the entity (Not to be confused with Polybius the historian), who is responsible for Polybius the arcade cabinet, is a being of pure artistic expansion with no regard for what is sacrificed for one's art, always pushing art into new media, always expanding what is to expand what art can be.

I wasn't going to talk about Polybius or my work with him on this site, because I didn't think anyone would take me seriously.
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I always have a very close bond with Cheshire from wonderland since young. The character influences me directly or indirectly in many aspects with its whimsical nature. And apparently Chessie is one busy cat inspiring scientists to linguists alike. There is an actual phenomenon in quantum mechanics termed “the Cheshire cat”. Pretty cool of Chessie.
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Well actually meeting Alice was a culmination of a long research in to agregores. And at the end of that rainbow i found realization, we are all the same, we are all agregores. But i completely understand why any of it gets ppl's eyes to roll, it's perfectly ok, I'd roll mine if i hadn't seen what I have seen :devilgrin:
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Chrysopaelian wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:42 am
This is a great post!

At the beginning of August, I evoked Polybius, which I think falls under the category of Egregore too. A video game urban legend that has taken on a life of its own, and has taken on a more personal meaning to me. Polybius the entity (Not to be confused with Polybius the historian), who is responsible for Polybius the arcade cabinet, is a being of pure artistic expansion with no regard for what is sacrificed for one's art, always pushing art into new media, always expanding what is to expand what art can be.

I wasn't going to talk about Polybius or my work with him on this site, because I didn't think anyone would take me seriously.
Yes, that definitely sounds like an egregore. I would LOVE for you to write about your experiences! \
Passemoon wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:30 am
I always have a very close bond with Cheshire from wonderland since young. The character influences me directly or indirectly in many aspects with its whimsical nature. And apparently Chessie is one busy cat inspiring scientists to linguists alike. There is an actual phenomenon in quantum mechanics termed “the Cheshire cat”. Pretty cool of Chessie.
I like Cheshie, but... I have to admit I find myself far more often in the company of Absolom. I didn't expect to find so much wisdom from an opium dreamer, but you know... so many times he's seen things that I didn't, and he's always able to put them into context. He's so wise.
Cerber wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:10 am
Well actually meeting Alice was a culmination of a long research in to agregores. And at the end of that rainbow i found realization, we are all the same, we are all agregores. But i completely understand why any of it gets ppl's eyes to roll, it's perfectly ok, I'd roll mine if i hadn't seen what I have seen :devilgrin:


The concept that all of us are egregores is a huge philosophical conversation, but the more I learn about egregores, the more I realize that this idea is just as true. Which... means that reality is even bendier than the bendiest of us thinks - because now egregores create egregores.
"She’s all the unsung heroes who... never quit." ― R. A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land
“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” ― William Shakespeare, Hamlet
“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
― H.L. Mencken, Prejudices: First Series
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You had me at Tim Curry, lol. Thank you for the definition of Egregore. I learned something new today thanks to you. :devilread:

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Found this interesting article - http://humanityhealing.net/2011/05/real ... -egregore/
The Real Meaning of Egregore

The word "Egregore" derives from the Greek word egrégoroi, meaning "watchers," which also transliterates as "Grigori." The word appears in the Septuagint translation of the Book of Lamentations, as well as the Book of Jubilees and the Book of Enoch. Even being derived from the word Grigori, which acquired a somewhat negative aspectation over the time, the general concept of Egregore is not evil. Gaetan Delaforge, in Gnosis Magazine in 1987, defines an Egregore as a kind of group mind which is created when people consciously come together for a common purpose.

When a group of people pray and meditate collectively towards an objective, an Egregore of protection and blessing is sent forth, as a circle of Light that shields and safeguards the purpose of the prayers.

Psychologically speaking, an Egregore is that "atmosphere” or "personality" that develops among groups independent of any of its members. It is the feeling or impression you get when walking into a neighborhood that “feels different” from the surrounding area, or when visiting a club or association that has been around for a long time.

In an occult or magical context, an Egregore is a general imprint that encircles a group entity. It is the summary of the physical, emotional, mental and spiritual energies generated by two or more people vibrating together towards the same goal; being a sub-product of our personal and collective creative process as co-creators of our reality.

An Egregore has developed to the point of attaining an independent existence as an entity itself or as an intentionally created entity, such as a servitor, that has grown in power well beyond its original design. To a non-religious practitioner of magic, an Egregore, and a god, or goddess, would be interchangeable terms. To a religious practitioner, an Egregore would be just below the level of a god or goddess.

The vast majority of human beings both incarnated and disincarnated are, in one way or form, connected to an Egregore.

An Egregore (or astral Group mind) can be either negative or positive, depending on the level of vibration and the frequency. Most of the connections with negative Egregore come from negative contracts made with physical or astral entities in exchange for power, fame or material goods. Also, some of these contracts or pacts can come from emotional persecutions, which at some point was born of the intent to keep the victim under its dominion to the extent of various earthly and parallel lifetimes. Some of these connections can also be activated through vices, addictions, and unruled sexual activities. When a soul gets committed to these types of obscure energies, there is always the tendency to lose vital energy which can result in the compromise of the monadic essence.

In general, the dominion of the negative Egregore is reaffirmed through artificial implants, which are limiting devices, which can be of a variety of forms, objectives and done with diverse possibilities allowed by the molding of astral matter. They are and functions more or less as thought forms, as holographic projections that may or may not solidify inside of the etheric bodies.

These devices are dangerous for the various levels of consciousness of incarnated and disincarnated beings because they are the means from which negative entities from negative Egregore feed on their vital energies. Progressively, these losses of energy can cause disturbances in the physical, psychological, emotional, mental and spiritual areas. It is sometimes hard to identify these implants because, in many cases, they did not originate in the current lifetime, but in previous ones which can be spontaneously activated if some subjective memory cells are activated during this incarnational period.

The Egregore is maintained through the mental and psychic energies of its creators and, as an autonomous entity, it is formed through the persistence and intensities of the current emotional and mental waves. Weak emotions and feelings tend to create undefined Egregore, with short life spans. The opposite is also true: big circles are created by strong will, emotions, and determination of purpose. There is a good Egregore that are positive and that bring blessings, good energies and protection against negative vibrations.

An Egregore can be personal or collective. The Egregore of the Umbra[1] is comprised of souls that were negativated by the bodies of desires; they are adepts of vices, drugs, and all sorts of unnatural sets of behaviors that are not characteristic of the spiritually enhanced human being. They are the ones that vibrate and maintain the negative collective Egregore. A person psychically balanced and with positive thoughts creates a very positive, prosperous and luminous personal Egregore. The same can be said of the opposite behavior. The only way that one can be rid of a negative Egregore is to affiliate with a stronger positive one.

[1] The umbra, Latin for "shadow", is the darkest part of the shadow, where the light source is completely blocked by the occluding body. An observer in the umbra experiences a total eclipse.
And of course, this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore
Egregore
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the occult concept of a group mind.
Part of a series on Chaos magic

Egregore (also egregor) is an occult concept representing a "thoughtform" or "collective group mind", an autonomous psychic entity made up of, and influencing, the thoughts of a group of people. The symbiotic relationship between an egregore and its group has been compared to the more recent, non-occult concepts of the corporation (as a legal entity) and the meme.

The first author to adapt "egregore" in a modern language seems to be the French poet Victor Hugo, in La Légende des siècles ("The Legend of the Ages"), First Series, 1859, where he uses the word "égrégore" first as an adjective, then as a noun, while leaving the meaning obscure.[1] The author seems to have needed a word rhyming with words ending in the sound "or". It would not be the only example of word creation by Victor Hugo. However, the word is the normal form that the Greek word ἑγρήγορος (Watcher) would take in French. This was the term used in the Book of Enoch for great angel-like spirits.

Eliphas Lévi, in Le Grand Arcane ("The Great Mystery", 1868) identifies "egregors" with the tradition concerning the "Watchers", the fathers of the nephilim, describing them as "terrible beings" that "crush us without pity because they are unaware of our existence."[2]

The concept of the egregore as a group thoughtform was developed in works of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and the Rosicrucians[3] and has been referenced by writers such as Valentin Tomberg, notably in his anonymously-penned book Meditations on the Tarot.[4]

A well known concept of the egregore is the GOTOS of the Fraternitas Saturni.[5]

Contemporary usage
Gaetan Delaforge, in Gnosis magazine in 1987, defines an egregore as a kind of group mind that is created when people consciously come together for a common purpose.[6]

The concept was featured in Corporate Metabolism series of articles by Paco Xander Nathan, which were published in 2001.

The notion of "egregor" also appears in Daniil Andreyev's Roza Mira, where it represents the shining cloud-like spirit associated with the Church.

Egregore is also used in relation to the Montreal Surrealists, best known as Les Automatistes, in Ray Ellenwood's Egregore: a history of the Montréal automatist movement.[7]

Egregore is also the term for the spiritual personification of each nation in the UK LRP game Empire, run by Profound Decisions [8]

See also
Chaos magic
Collective consciousness
Faith healing
Memetics
Panpsychism
Pathetic fallacy
Servitor (chaos magic)
Tulpa
Vitalism

Notes
^ Victor Hugo, "Le jour des rois", La Légende des Siècles IV, V, and "L'Italie – Ratbert", La Légende des Siècles VII. Both in the Première Série, 1859.
^ Lévi, Eliphas, "The Great Mystery" (1868) pp. 127–130, 133, 136
^ Fama Fraternitatis Rosae Crucis.(1614) Manifesto: Positio. Epilogue page 25
^ Anonymous (2002-06-01). Meditations on the Tarot: A Journey Into Christian Hermeticism. Translated by Powell, Robert. Jeremy P. Tarcher/ Putnam. ISBN 9781585421619. ASIN 1585421618.
^ Flowers (1995), pp. 36–38
^ Delaforge, Gaeten, "The Templar Tradition: Yesterday and Today", Gnosis Magazine, #6, 1987.
^ Ellenwood, Ray, Egregore : a history of the Montréal automatist movement. Toronto: Exile Editions, 1992. ISBN 9781550960211
^ "Egregores - Empire". Empire Wiki. profounddecisions.co.uk.

References
Bernstein, L. S. (1998). "Egregor". The Rosicrucian Archive. Confraternity of the Rose Cross. Retrieved November 22, 2011.
Butler, Walter Ernest (1970). "The Egregore of a School". Servantsofthelight.org. The Servants of the Light. Retrieved November 22, 2011.
Flowers, S. Edred (1995). Fire & Ice: Magical Teachings of Germany's Greatest Secret Occult Order. Llewellyn's Teutonic Magick Series (2nd ed.). Llewellyn Publications. ISBN 0-87542-776-6.
Nathan, Paco Xander (2001). "Chasing Egregors". The Scarlet Letter. Scarlet Woman Lodge, Ordo Templi Orientis.
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“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” ― William Shakespeare, Hamlet
“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
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So in the past i have interacted with very closely with some pop culture spirits and i was wondering whether they would be considered egregores- specifically from anime and such. Or if they originally existed as egregores then became something else? I also tend to be able to connect really easily to certain beings form books, stories and their worlds - so i definitely agree about all these worlds existing out there. Its such a vast topis to explore.
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Heretique wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:12 pm
So in the past i have interacted with very closely with some pop culture spirits and i was wondering whether they would be considered egregores- specifically from anime and such. Or if they originally existed as egregores then became something else? I also tend to be able to connect really easily to certain beings form books, stories and their worlds - so i definitely agree about all these worlds existing out there. Its such a vast topis to explore.
Anything that starts out as an idea qualifies as an egregore - so yes, pop culture spirits are egregores.

The reason we become egregores is that people get ideas about us. Sometimes we are independent of the egregore us, and sometimes not so much - Tim Curry and Christopher Walken being the prime example of both. :)
"She’s all the unsung heroes who... never quit." ― R. A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land
“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” ― William Shakespeare, Hamlet
“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
― H.L. Mencken, Prejudices: First Series
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Facinating topic.
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