Suggestion from Lucifer? Who to start with...

[Kristen]

I am not sure if doing a gateway working, much less with King Belial, would be a good option for now. King Belial's primary domain is politics. So I could see working with him for social maneuvers, favors climbing the ladder, etc. It is proper to have an offering when dealing with him, even in simple rites. He is one of the 9 demonic divines of demonolatry as well, a lord of Earth as an element.

As for not knowing which to pick: that is perfectly fine. You can explore and work with demons without being bound to just dealing with one, and it comes highly recommended to experiment and try the different energies, etc, before even considering whom might be your patron.

Prince Orobas does quite a bit of vision work, so you may actually be able to ask for help developing your third eye from him. My go to for psychic development is Prince Vassago, but I understand that he is not for everyone.

Definitely keep exploring! There is a wonderful world of demons out there just waiting for you to find them.

Thanks for this. Okay, makes sense about Belial. Probably not one to approach for a beginner. So, you are saying I can call up some demons for one offs and not have to make a pact or whatever or it is a short term agreement?

I hate to sound ignorant but I probably will, there is a lot of conflicting information out there and also conflicting experiences. Some say the Goetia approach is a must, others say that is absolutely not necessary. The Goetia people seem to think the demons won't willingly do anything unless you command them and won't leave you alone (if that's what you want) if you don't banish them. Other people say that is not a big deal and the energies are good to have around, plus the demons will sometimes choose to help or whatever. Agh!

Interesting you say there is a wonderful world of demons just waiting for me to find them. That is either really great or really ominous!

As for the 3rd eye thing, I have read a bit about Orobas and he sounds pretty friendly, helpful. Guess I won't know till I ask. I have just been casually asking Lord Lucifer for some advice, direction, etc. I even put out there what I would like to achieve.

I don't want to lose my soul. That's another thing - some say it won't happen, others say yes it will but it is worth it? How is a newbie supposed to figure out which way things might go if there is such a contradiction in information?!

I guess I don't have to have any agreements if I don't like the terms? I mean, I have free will as do they.... ?

I really have a lot of questions - btw, are you part of the Black Witch Coven or are you in a different spiritual group?

Thanks and would it be okay to PM you at some stage?

Many thanks, Kristen

[User50]

There are a lot of conflicting practices out there! I'll do my best to give a very basic (probably oversimplified and definitely biased) breakdown of a few for you, and some commentary on why they are the way they are.

Solomonic Tradition, a la The Lesser Key of Solomon: Lemegeton: Ars Goetia. This is the tradition of using the circle of Arte, encompassed by the names of the Abrahamic God, to forcefully bind a demon in the triangle of manifestation and assault them using holy phrases until they relent and give the magician what they want. This is Ceremonial Magick, and sees the commanding of demons as tools to be in line with the work of God. There are some who practice this who do not hold to Judaic or Christian or Muslim tenants, but it goes with them more fully than others, especially considering the figure of King Solomon.

Demonolatry Tradition, a la people like S Connolly and Ellen Purswell etc. This tradition stems direction from the worship of demons as divine intelligences. It can either be just a religion, or can also include magickal workings. The demons are respected and held in high regard, offerings are made as called for, and the practitioner lives in harmony with the demonic forces as a part of their life.

These are just two examples. But as you can see (I am very biased), if one is to take on the Solomonic Tradition, they are very much antagonizing the demonic. This, I feel, is the reason there are so many stories of practitioners not following the rituals to a T and getting the full brunt of a demon's fury. A slave will always rebel. If you attack and assault a demon, hell yeah they are going to be looking for a way to get back at you, break free, and teach you a lesson.

Now, I have worked with both. For a long time I was a traditionalist, working from the Lesser Keys of Solomon and supporting texts, using the traditional Circle of Arte and Triangle of Manifestation in my practice. However, as time went on, I began to wonder. I wasn't commanding the demons, I wasn't lashing out at them with the blinding fury of God. When I invited them in my space, they came, and we could have civil exchanges, though they seemed somewhat uncomfortable.

When that first occurred to me, I stumbled upon books on demonolatry soon after. This gave me a different option, a different way to go about it.

Another path would be Demonosophy, which is the S&S path and can be read about more here: https://satanandsuns.com/blog/what-is-demonosophy/ This one in particular resonates the most with me, as I do not wish to hurt demons, and while I have dabbled in religion, outright worship just isn't a thing I am interested in. Walking with demons, learning from them, and sharing of their experience in my own path? Absolutely, that's what I've been looking for.

For your other question: no, I am not part of BWC, nor am I currently part of any other group. For a while there I was trying to establish my own order, but have decided to once again try to find already existing like-minded communities with a foundation of their own.

[Kristen]

So, Revenant Oracle, I see you have "outgrown" the Goetiac approach. TBH, I don't like the sound of it myself. I would prefer if I could have a mutual relationship with them, if that's possible for me.

I read someone, somewhere on the internet mentioned that they were able to invoke demons such as Orobas without "protection" and suffered no adverse effects or malignant consequences. I would assume a basic circle is appropriate? Do I use my own quarters (i.e. not the archangels, LOL - tried that and got a nasty backlash) e.g. I use Morriganic spirit animals because I love animals/animal spirits and so call on raven, horse, eel and wolf spirits. Would these suffice? Or would it be better to use the "demonic" quarters aka the Watchers?

Also, I would like to call on Orobas but I have no storax incense - could I substitute another incense? Or it is better to stick to the known preference until I get to know said demon?

Thanks once again for your answers and information

[Conium]

So, Revenant Oracle, I see you have "outgrown" the Goetiac approach. TBH, I don't like the sound of it myself. I would prefer if I could have a mutual relationship with them, if that's possible for me.

I read someone, somewhere on the internet mentioned that they were able to invoke demons such as Orobas without "protection" and suffered no adverse effects or malignant consequences. I would assume a basic circle is appropriate? Do I use my own quarters (i.e. not the archangels, LOL - tried that and got a nasty backlash) e.g. I use Morriganic spirit animals because I love animals/animal spirits and so call on raven, horse, eel and wolf spirits. Would these suffice? Or would it be better to use the "demonic" quarters aka the Watchers?

Also, I would like to call on Orobas but I have no storax incense - could I substitute another incense? Or it is better to stick to the known preference until I get to know said demon?

Thanks once again for your answers and information

The Goetic approach really isn't the best way, imho, to experience and forge a relationship with the Lords and Ladies. Learning from Akelta and Demonosophy helped me to really connect with them on a deep level and the commanding of demons and restraining them within the Triangle of Manifestation doesn't vibe with me at all. I actually cried the first time I tried reading through the Goetia.

As far as a circle goes, that's pretty much open to however you feel comfortable in calling the circle. It's there to balance energies and to create a sacred space. I know someone who casts their circles with spirit animals and it works for them, I don't really resonate with that so I just call my circle by calling in the energies of the elements themselves. I've also adopted casting a second demonolatry circle around that. IDK if that helps more, but it's what feels best to me and helps to really connect with the Demon Lord/Lady that I am invoking for that specific rite. It's also bled into almost all of my ritual workings or any time I cast a circle now that I think about it.

As far as incense goes, you could also use cedar for Prince Orobas. You could also mix that with calamus, chamomile, or orris root. This would be a general incense designed to contact a Prince associated with the element of Water (S. Connolly, Wortcunning for Daemonolatry).

[Kristen]

Cool, thanks for the Conium! I have to get some of those S Connoly books by the sounds of things.

That's really good about them not being so difficult to approach and not needing to be too fancy or strict about things.

I will ponder these things some more but may decide to call on Orobas at some stage.